Danny Fired Vinnie over Zorn

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Danny Fired Vinnie over Zorn

Postby DarthMonk » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:28 pm

LINK

On Jim Zorn: “The general manager needs to prevent the owner from hiring someone who’s not qualified. And that’s why Vinny is no longer here, to be truthful with you. He’s not here because his job was to prevent the owner from hiring a not-qualified coach. Having said that, we went in and had the worst two-year experience I ever dreamed. I apologized, according to my wife, ten thousand times. I apologize openly. I made a big mistake. It’s a terrible experience when you know you got the wrong guy to lead the franchise.”
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Postby markshark84 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:52 pm

Really????

That's why he fired Vinny?

I guess this says a good deal about how involved Danny was in the GM process --- because if he didn't fire Vinny because of the decade long draft and FA failures, then Synder must have been the one all the draft and FA acquisitions went thru.

I'm still not totally convinced Danny truly understands his failures. He says that Schot was fired because he wanted to "do it all". Isn't that what MS is techncially doing (in that he has final sign off on all football related transactions)? Because in the article he uses the present tense "I don't think that works" and "one guy can't do everything".

I believe that the only reason Danny hired a GM after Vinny is because the fans would have killed him otherwise. This is supported by the Haslett move. Had the fans not gone crazy, Danny would have hired him.

But to Danny ---- trust the fans ---- we know how terrible the experience is when the wrong guy "owns" a franchise.

I just hope that if we are able to continue and sustain our success that it doesn't go to his head and think he had anything to do with it (in terms of football transactions).
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Postby Countertrey » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:05 pm

markshark84 wrote:I believe that the only reason Danny hired a GM after Vinny is because the fans would have killed him otherwise. This is supported by the Haslett move. Had the fans not gone crazy, Danny would have hired him.


I suspect you mean the Fassel move... but, it's all good.
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Postby markshark84 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:31 pm

Countertrey wrote:
markshark84 wrote:I believe that the only reason Danny hired a GM after Vinny is because the fans would have killed him otherwise. This is supported by the Haslett move. Had the fans not gone crazy, Danny would have hired him.


I suspect you mean the Fassel move... but, it's all good.
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Re: Danny Fired Vinnie over Zorn

Postby Irn-Bru » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:41 pm

DarthMonk wrote: LINK

On Jim Zorn: “The general manager needs to prevent the owner from hiring someone who’s not qualified. And that’s why Vinny is no longer here, to be truthful with you. He’s not here because his job was to prevent the owner from hiring a not-qualified coach. Having said that, we went in and had the worst two-year experience I ever dreamed. I apologized, according to my wife, ten thousand times. I apologize openly. I made a big mistake. It’s a terrible experience when you know you got the wrong guy to lead the franchise.”


I find this a bit disturbing. Snyder fired Vinny because he was too much of a yes-man? What did he expect? If you breed nothing but yes men and weed out people unafraid to speak up, you can't really complain about the result . . .

And to think he didn't fire him over his personnel management. Vinny admitted that he offered two #1s for a badly aging Chad Johnson. Just let that sink in for a bit. Any GM that stupid ought to be fired right away, and that doesn't even begin to touch Vinny's draft record.

I guess it has worked out OK in the end, but I would have thought Snyder had caught on a little better than this interview implies. Kinda scary, IMHO.
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Postby The Hogster » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:58 am

That was more like the last straw.

Jim Zorn
Albert Haynesworth
Letting Ryan Clark go and signing Archuletta
Jason Taylor trade
A 3rd Round pick for TJ Duckett SMH

This article lists the Top 20 Worst Personnell Moves by Vinny

http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredskins/2012/11/06/top-20-of-vinny-cerratos-worst-personnel-moves/

While we're all sad about the current Redskins season and they way its unfolding, let's take a look back at an even darker time. I was pretty bored yesterday and was thinking about the current Washington Redskins situation and how it relates to recent history before Mike Shanahan. Of course, one name comes to mind. Vinny Cerrato. Then I thought to myself, can I name at least 20 terrible personnel and coaching decisions made while Vinny Cerrato was in Washington?


Yep, this guy was leading our organization for way too long.
I know Vinny may not be fully responsible for all of these but they happened while he was either GM or Vice President. And this is why Cerrato is doing radio now talking about his Notre Dame and 49er days and not his time in Washington. These are in no particular order.

1. Hiring Jim Zorn as offensive coordinator when the team still did not have a head coach.

Who thinks this is smart? Only Jerry Jones when he did it with Jason Garrett. Enough said. Can you guess what the next one is?

2. Hiring Jim Zorn as head coach.


After rumors of Jim Fassel as the leading candidate put DC in an uproar, the Skins chose Zorn and two seasons later it was over. The relationship with Cerrato and his time as a NFL head coach. Hip Hip Hooray!

3. All things concerning losing Champ Bailey.

I will keep this as one although it could be multiple moves. First, they offered Champ a terrible deal which he and his agent rejected ending most chances of him being resigned. Then there is the trade. First of all, I liked Clinton Portis and he gave the Skins many great seasons, but Cerrato and Gibbs traded away arguably one of the best cornerbacks of all time and threw in an extra 2nd round pick. Complete disaster.

4. Back to Zorn.

The team reached complete embarrassment the day they took most powers from head coach Zorn and brought in Sherman Lewis as an offensive consultant. Lewis who was a respected offensive coach in the 90s was well out of football and made Washington an easy target for everyone's elderly jokes.

5. Most forget this but the Redskins actually moved up in the second round of 2006 draft to take Rocky McIntosh.

And it cost them by giving up an extra 2nd rounder in the following draft. McIntosh was a decent linebacker but if you ever question the depth of this team here was a move to look back at.

6. Making DeAngelo Hall one of the highest paid corners in the game.

Horrible mistake by Cerrato after actually picking up Hall on the minimum the season before. "Meangelo" is the gift that keeps on giving. I have talked about Hall way too much the past few weeks and am done with it.

7. Cutting Shaun Suisham after missing the short field goal versus New Orleans while he was having a solid season.

Horrible reaction move that benefitted both Suisham and the Pittsburgh Steelers. Maybe the Redskins have something in Kai Forbath now but having Suisham the past few seasons may have change some things.

8. Another horrible snap decision. Trading for Jason Taylor instantly after Phillip Daniels went down in training camp.

Then after his only season in Washington cutting Taylor because he wanted to do non-mandatory workouts on his own, which I believe they agreed on before. Even better, any cap relief went towards resigning Hall and another large fella.

9. Haynesworth. That is all. Nothing left to say.

10. Now Brandon Lloyd has had his moments as a NFL wide receiver but in another draft pick toss away, the Redskins actually gave the Niners a 3rd and 4th rounder for someone they were happy to see go.

Lloyd has proven very little at that point and proved even less with the Redskins.

11. You want more draft pick toss aways?

This may be more on Gibbs but the Redskins gave away another third round pick to the Jaguars for Mark Brunell who would have most likely been released shortly after. Brunell wasn't bad for the Skins but once again ask where our depth went and there you go.

12. How many 3rd rounders can one team throw away? Well, not done yet.

Remember TJ Duckett's Redskins career? Maybe the worst of all the moves made in the Cerrrato times. I could Google up how many actual times he touched the ball but it’s not even worth it.

13. More pick throwaways? Why not? How about a 4th rounder for Trung Candidate. Double whammy.

One we gave up a pick but two we pretty much replaced Stephen Davis with him. Davis soon left a year before Gibbs arrived. Wouldn't Gibbs have liked to have Davis? Maybe Champ Bailey trade was then never made? Really don't want to think this one out anymore.

14. Every one I do makes me sicker. This could go as 14, 15, 16 but everyone feels this should be lumped together. Let’s just call it 2008 2nd round of draft.

The Skins after making a so/so trade ended up with three picks in that round. Devin Thomas. Bust. Fred Davis. Been good at times, but future is very unclear with team. Malcolm Kelly. Disaster of a bust. The whole draft actually was a disaster.

15. Sometimes we got lucky with Vinny, and when I say lucky it’s that only Mike Brown may be more clueless as a GM.

Thank the football gods that Mike Brown shot down Vinny's offer of two first round picks for Chad Johnson a few years back. Picks that turned into Brian Orakpo and Trent Williams by the way. Move was not made but has to be included.

16. This one may be controversial, but I bring it up since it was such a high pick. Taking Laron Landry 6th overall in the 2007 draft.

I am one who is very happy Landry is gone and at the time, the Skins had Sean Taylor at one safety already. Much like this list it is tough to look and say what it but here is who they took Landry over…Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Darelle Revis and Lawrence Timmons.

17. First of all I had a lot of respect for Jason Campbell when he was here.

I think he got a raw deal plenty of times but it didn't work out. And not only was he not the long term answer as quarterback but the Redskins once again gave up multiple picks to move up and grab Campbell.

18. Speaking of quarterbacks I have to add the drafting of Patrick Ramsey in the first round.

It was at the end of the 1st round, but anytime you miss on a quarterback it can be devastating and they missed badly. And if it was Snyder's pick, even worse. Vinny is supposed to be the football guy and should have talked Snyder out of it. Maybe it was actually a Spurrier pick because just like his Florida QB's, Ramsey couldn't play.

19. I almost missed on maybe the greatest one of all time. The 2000 free agent bonanza.

Been over it plenty of times. Bruce Smith broke the sack record at the same time he was proclaimed as "Highway 78", Mark Carrier was awful, Jeff George was worse and Deion Sanders did play well and walked away after one year with a boat load of cash. This was the first sign that it could be bad quick and it did.

20. For the last one just going to rattle of some great ones to end.

Regan Upshaw, Vinny's radio show as GM, Chad Morton for another draft pick, Dave Fiore, Michael Barrow, 6 for 36 for Jeremiah Trotter, Taylor Jacobs, Jeremy Jarmon, Adam Archuleta (almost missed that one) and is Ryan Clark still playing? Hurts.

Now as I said before, Vinny is probably not to blame for all of these but it shows how much of an embarrassment the organization was during his time. I know I am missing some more but just to rattle off an easy twenty shows why he is on Baltimore radio and not with another team, unless you count the highs school team he works with.

I think the team should have a ceremony before one of their home games where they bury the Cerrato era. And as Lauren said to Heidi, it is time to "Forgive and Forget." Pathetic I used that example.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:33 am

The Hogster wrote:That was more like the last straw.

Jim Zorn
Albert Haynesworth
Letting Ryan Clark go and signing Archuletta
Jason Taylor trade
A 3rd Round pick for TJ Duckett SMH

This article lists the Top 20 Worst Personnell Moves by Vinny


Those are all great reasons to fire Vinny, but what does it have to do with Snyder's reasons for firing him? Among other things, Snyder was the cause of Ryan Clark leaving.

I have to admit I LOLed when I saw the item on Suisham, though. Has anyone here ever looked back at THN threads on him? That was a just a sampling of fan sentiment. But now people want to act like it was a mistake at the time.
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Postby welch » Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:34 pm

Reading the original story made me want to throw up. Please, mods, that sort of thing deserves to be censored!!

Friend of mine was VP of technology at a small company...he had about twenty programmers and other engineers in his group. My friend had been one of the first five employees...helped to build the company. When the boss brought in a Real Smart guy from MBA school, and the MBA guy told the boss to "re-engineer" the entire company, my friend warned against it. Boss followed the advice of the MBA; company collapsed; friend lost his retirement savings, which had been in company stock (leading friend to be available to GE Information Services, where I met him).

Boss told friend, "This is your fault. Yes, you warned me not to do this, but it's your fault because you didn't convince me!"

That's our Danny.

I was hoping that Snyder had matured...

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Postby DarthMonk » Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:20 pm

The Hogster wrote:That was more like the last straw.

Jim Zorn
Albert Haynesworth
Letting Ryan Clark go and signing Archuletta
Jason Taylor trade
A 3rd Round pick for TJ Duckett SMH

This article lists the Top 20 Worst Personnell Moves by Vinny

http://fanspeak.com/washingtonredskins/2012/11/06/top-20-of-vinny-cerratos-worst-personnel-moves/

While we're all sad about the current Redskins season and they way its unfolding, let's take a look back at an even darker time. I was pretty bored yesterday and was thinking about the current Washington Redskins situation and how it relates to recent history before Mike Shanahan. Of course, one name comes to mind. Vinny Cerrato. Then I thought to myself, can I name at least 20 terrible personnel and coaching decisions made while Vinny Cerrato was in Washington?


Yep, this guy was leading our organization for way too long.
I know Vinny may not be fully responsible for all of these but they happened while he was either GM or Vice President. And this is why Cerrato is doing radio now talking about his Notre Dame and 49er days and not his time in Washington. These are in no particular order.

1. Hiring Jim Zorn as offensive coordinator when the team still did not have a head coach.

Who thinks this is smart? Only Jerry Jones when he did it with Jason Garrett. Enough said. Can you guess what the next one is?

2. Hiring Jim Zorn as head coach.


After rumors of Jim Fassel as the leading candidate put DC in an uproar, the Skins chose Zorn and two seasons later it was over. The relationship with Cerrato and his time as a NFL head coach. Hip Hip Hooray!

3. All things concerning losing Champ Bailey.

I will keep this as one although it could be multiple moves. First, they offered Champ a terrible deal which he and his agent rejected ending most chances of him being resigned. Then there is the trade. First of all, I liked Clinton Portis and he gave the Skins many great seasons, but Cerrato and Gibbs traded away arguably one of the best cornerbacks of all time and threw in an extra 2nd round pick. Complete disaster.

4. Back to Zorn.

The team reached complete embarrassment the day they took most powers from head coach Zorn and brought in Sherman Lewis as an offensive consultant. Lewis who was a respected offensive coach in the 90s was well out of football and made Washington an easy target for everyone's elderly jokes.

5. Most forget this but the Redskins actually moved up in the second round of 2006 draft to take Rocky McIntosh.

And it cost them by giving up an extra 2nd rounder in the following draft. McIntosh was a decent linebacker but if you ever question the depth of this team here was a move to look back at.

6. Making DeAngelo Hall one of the highest paid corners in the game.

Horrible mistake by Cerrato after actually picking up Hall on the minimum the season before. "Meangelo" is the gift that keeps on giving. I have talked about Hall way too much the past few weeks and am done with it.

7. Cutting Shaun Suisham after missing the short field goal versus New Orleans while he was having a solid season.

Horrible reaction move that benefitted both Suisham and the Pittsburgh Steelers. Maybe the Redskins have something in Kai Forbath now but having Suisham the past few seasons may have change some things.

8. Another horrible snap decision. Trading for Jason Taylor instantly after Phillip Daniels went down in training camp.

Then after his only season in Washington cutting Taylor because he wanted to do non-mandatory workouts on his own, which I believe they agreed on before. Even better, any cap relief went towards resigning Hall and another large fella.

9. Haynesworth. That is all. Nothing left to say.

10. Now Brandon Lloyd has had his moments as a NFL wide receiver but in another draft pick toss away, the Redskins actually gave the Niners a 3rd and 4th rounder for someone they were happy to see go.

Lloyd has proven very little at that point and proved even less with the Redskins.

11. You want more draft pick toss aways?

This may be more on Gibbs but the Redskins gave away another third round pick to the Jaguars for Mark Brunell who would have most likely been released shortly after. Brunell wasn't bad for the Skins but once again ask where our depth went and there you go.

12. How many 3rd rounders can one team throw away? Well, not done yet.

Remember TJ Duckett's Redskins career? Maybe the worst of all the moves made in the Cerrrato times. I could Google up how many actual times he touched the ball but it’s not even worth it.

13. More pick throwaways? Why not? How about a 4th rounder for Trung Candidate. Double whammy.

One we gave up a pick but two we pretty much replaced Stephen Davis with him. Davis soon left a year before Gibbs arrived. Wouldn't Gibbs have liked to have Davis? Maybe Champ Bailey trade was then never made? Really don't want to think this one out anymore.

14. Every one I do makes me sicker. This could go as 14, 15, 16 but everyone feels this should be lumped together. Let’s just call it 2008 2nd round of draft.

The Skins after making a so/so trade ended up with three picks in that round. Devin Thomas. Bust. Fred Davis. Been good at times, but future is very unclear with team. Malcolm Kelly. Disaster of a bust. The whole draft actually was a disaster.

15. Sometimes we got lucky with Vinny, and when I say lucky it’s that only Mike Brown may be more clueless as a GM.

Thank the football gods that Mike Brown shot down Vinny's offer of two first round picks for Chad Johnson a few years back. Picks that turned into Brian Orakpo and Trent Williams by the way. Move was not made but has to be included.

16. This one may be controversial, but I bring it up since it was such a high pick. Taking Laron Landry 6th overall in the 2007 draft.

I am one who is very happy Landry is gone and at the time, the Skins had Sean Taylor at one safety already. Much like this list it is tough to look and say what it but here is who they took Landry over…Adrian Peterson, Patrick Willis, Darelle Revis and Lawrence Timmons.

17. First of all I had a lot of respect for Jason Campbell when he was here.

I think he got a raw deal plenty of times but it didn't work out. And not only was he not the long term answer as quarterback but the Redskins once again gave up multiple picks to move up and grab Campbell.

18. Speaking of quarterbacks I have to add the drafting of Patrick Ramsey in the first round.

It was at the end of the 1st round, but anytime you miss on a quarterback it can be devastating and they missed badly. And if it was Snyder's pick, even worse. Vinny is supposed to be the football guy and should have talked Snyder out of it. Maybe it was actually a Spurrier pick because just like his Florida QB's, Ramsey couldn't play.

19. I almost missed on maybe the greatest one of all time. The 2000 free agent bonanza.

Been over it plenty of times. Bruce Smith broke the sack record at the same time he was proclaimed as "Highway 78", Mark Carrier was awful, Jeff George was worse and Deion Sanders did play well and walked away after one year with a boat load of cash. This was the first sign that it could be bad quick and it did.

20. For the last one just going to rattle of some great ones to end.

Regan Upshaw, Vinny's radio show as GM, Chad Morton for another draft pick, Dave Fiore, Michael Barrow, 6 for 36 for Jeremiah Trotter, Taylor Jacobs, Jeremy Jarmon, Adam Archuleta (almost missed that one) and is Ryan Clark still playing? Hurts.

Now as I said before, Vinny is probably not to blame for all of these but it shows how much of an embarrassment the organization was during his time. I know I am missing some more but just to rattle off an easy twenty shows why he is on Baltimore radio and not with another team, unless you count the highs school team he works with.

I think the team should have a ceremony before one of their home games where they bury the Cerrato era. And as Lauren said to Heidi, it is time to "Forgive and Forget." Pathetic I used that example.


It is truly a miracle we have overcome this debacle. We've all been wrong about something but it seems we were all right about Vinny. The other owners must have loved seeing him stay here for so long. The very thought of 2 1st rounders for Johnson boggles the mind. There are probably 10 other decisions not mentioned which would qualify as Ozzie Newsome's worst 10.

I literally pulled for the Raiders to beat us a few years back only becuase I thought we needed to suck to an extent that would force Danny to let Vinny go. Thank goodness he's gone.

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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:07 pm

The main reason this franchise was so bad was because of Dan Snyder NOT Vinnie Cerrato

anyone can put whatever spin they want on it ... Snyder is ultimately to blame



I cannot believe that anyone could think that things might have been different with a Ozzie Newsome or a Bill Polian ...

with Snyder as owner we were doomed no matter who the manager or 'yes man' that worked for him was

you might say the good guys would not have put up with Snyder ... NOBODY that was worth anything would come and work UNDER Snyder

that was the key to Mike coming in - during his year "off" he made it clear to Snyder that no matter who the HC was, there was NO CHANCE of getting a good HC with Snyder (OR Cerrato) 'involved' - Mike would not have taken the job if Snyder had not made it clear that he (Snyder) would not be involved with ANYTHING to do with the players or coaches

Snyder is the sole reason for all the mess this franchise was in for all those years

hopefully he keeps his STUPID thinking to himself - Snyder does not have a clue about the NFL
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Postby DarthMonk » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:27 pm

SkinsJock wrote:The main reason this franchise was so bad was because of Dan Snyder NOT Vinnie Cerrato


It goes back to Dan but dude, they were joined at the hip. Get real. Dan is still here and Vinny is gone. Things are better. Things were also better when Marty got rid of Vinny. There's some sort of pattern.
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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:44 am

Cerrato worked at the 49ers before he came here and was not the same FO guy after he came here ...

Snyder is responsible - he's the owner

most all franchises that are not doing well have owners that don't let the NFL guys run things

we are doing better since Snyder stopped hurting the franchise which included having Cerrato and interfering with both players and managing

losing Cerrato was NOT near as important as losing Snyder's stupid decision making and letting Bruce and Mike run things here

I doubt that Cerrato was worth much as a FO guy or if Mike could have worked with him, but ... NOT having Snyder involved was CRITICAL
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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:48 am

DarthMonk wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:The main reason this franchise was so bad was because of Dan Snyder NOT Vinnie Cerrato


It goes back to Dan but dude, they were joined at the hip. Get real. Dan is still here and Vinny is gone. Things are better. Things were also better when Marty got rid of Vinny. There's some sort of pattern.


yeah - it's Dan Snyder - he's NOT 'here' anymore - he's just the owner now

we had Marty and we had Joe - in the long run, even good HCs could NOT really get anything done - BECAUSE of Snyder's interfering
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:17 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
yeah - it's Dan Snyder - he's NOT 'here' anymore - he's just the owner now

we had Marty and we had Joe - in the long run, even good HCs could NOT really get anything done - BECAUSE of Snyder's interfering



He is there and he is involved. Let's not oversimply it. He now trusts his generals to make the right moves. It's still his money and his product, I'm sure he's privy to things to a degree.


Gibbs was held back because he was outdated. His coaching and schemes were relevant. But he wasn't up to speed with the current NFL and he needed someone to guide him through that. Dan provided Gibbs a blind man. If Gibbs had kept up with the game like Mike did when he was out of it, he could have demanded Vinny gone. He would have been gone within the moment.
Last edited by Chris Luva Luva on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:06 pm

Gibbs has always been too nice about Snyder, IMHO. Good for PR purposes but not good for team management while he was coach.
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