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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| DarthMonk wrote: | Not taking a side, just asking a question:
If a bounty does not increase the likelihood of big hits and/or dirty hits why have a bounty?
DarthMonk |
Why does your job offer bonuses? To motivate people who have possibly become complacent. OR to just amp up people. It's a game within a game. It fuels competition.
Why do Elem skools offer pizza parties to a classroom that excels at selling chocolate?!?!
OMG BOUNTIES!! |
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CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Irn-Bru wrote: | | Countertrey wrote: | | PulpExposure wrote: | | welch wrote: |
And I agree that Gibbs usually knew everything, and could have known about a bounty system. Generally, he let Petibon coach the defense while he coached the offense, but Gibbs was so thorough that he would have known about a bounty system. |
Gibbs apparently didn't [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3138182]know when Wiliams started 10 players in a game after Sean Taylor's death.
That tells me there's probably a good chance he didn't know what GreGGG was doing most of the time. |
Williams may have been the only one who knew about the 10 player thing... MULTIPLE people knew about the Bounty thing... players talk... players brag... Sorry... don't buy it. Gibbs is a great, and decent guy... but he was also a coach who cut his teeth on hard nosed football... and he is and was no chump. He either knew... or suspected, and didn't want to know (which is the same thing). |
Players brag, but because people knew this practice was dirty and probably illegal, I doubt they were making much noise about it. IMO it's pretty easy to understand why the players / Williams would want to keep this secret. At the end of the day, it wasn't that much money (for these guys). The bounty program was about being an assassin, which isn't something you tell everyone and their mother about.
FWIW, Greg Blache spoke up solely to swear that there's no way Gibbs knew about it:
http://cli.gs/4a05lg3
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Joe Gibbs was not aware of the Washington Redskins’ bounty system operated during his second stint as the team’s head coach, a longtime Washington assistant coach said Monday.
Commenting for the first time about the pay-for-pain program former Redskins defensive coordinator Gregg Williams directed between 2004 and 2007, Greg Blache, who coached Washington’s defensive line for four seasons under Gibbs, said in a phone interview the Hall of Famer was not involved in the conduct that violated NFL rules. Last week, Gibbs said he had no knowledge of what many current and former Redskins players and two assistant coaches said occurred under him.
“I assure you, he had no idea of what was happening,” said Blache, who was aware of Williams’s actions but declined to provide specific details on the bounty system. “If he had, he would have put a stop to it.”
. . .
Blache, who succeeded Williams as defensive coordinator before the 2008 season, recently declined to discuss his decision to shut down the operation after Williams was fired following the 2007 season.
But Blache, who rarely granted interviews during his final three seasons with the Redskins, decided to speak out Monday in support of Gibbs.
“The only reason I’m talking at all is that I don’t want to see a man like Joe Gibbs get pulled down into the muck of this because Joe Gibbs did not know,” Blache said. “The whole situation, the way this is all coming out, is unfortunate.
“But to have anyone think Joe Gibbs knew, or to accuse Joe Gibbs to be part and parcel to it, is just totally wrong. People who know me know I don’t put my name on a lot of things. But I know for a fact that he didn’t know, so I’ll put my name to this.”
Williams had significant freedom in running the defense, “and this was done in a very closed setting,” Blache said. “It was done separate from the team. It was done strictly as a defensive room situation. There was a saying in that room: ‘What’s said in here stays in here.’ Coach Gibbs had no clue.
“He’s such a straight-laced Christian kind of guy. Not that what went on was un-Christian . . . but he was just not tolerant of a lot of things. And had he ever gotten a drift of it, I can assure you, he would have come down with a hammer on the situation immediately. There’s no question.”
Other than the defensive players and coaches, Blache said, few people at Redskins Park were aware of the cash bonuses, which were also paid out for sacks, interceptions and forcing and recovering fumbles.
“Quite honestly, 99 percent of the offensive coaches didn’t know,” Blache said. “ There were a lot of people that didn’t know about it. Really, unless you were in that room, you didn’t know about it.”
. . .
“I’m not here to throw Gregg under the bus. I know Gregg, I’ve worked with Gregg . . . he’s a friend of mine,” Blache said. “But I just want people to know Joe Gibbs was not part of this.
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If Gibbs says he didn't know, that's personally good enough for me — I give him the benefit of the doubt, and since there's zero evidence that says he did know (aside from what we assume about how an NFL locker room works), that means I assume Gibbs is innocent until something damning shows up.
But even if Gibbs' word wasn't enough for me, what Blache says here also seems convincing. Here's a guy who shut down the program after Williams was gone and could easily have used that to grab media attention with this story, but he's too private to care about that. And yet he goes out of his way to speak up for Gibbs, and even stakes his own reputation on what he claims Gibbs didn't know. For someone as old school as Blache, that means something.
Either way: to say that Gibbs either knew and didn't do anything about it or purposefully avoided finding out is a fairly serious charge against his character, CT. I think the man deserves a little more of the benefit of the doubt: have you seen any evidence that makes you think he knew? If not, we should probably take him at his word. My two cents |
Gibbs NOT knowing about it is more of a condemnation of his second tenure than knowing about it and letting it go on. This bounty issue is being vastly overblown and isn't a big deal at all imho. Guys that make millions of dollars a year aren't going to start trying to maliciously injure other players because of a $5,000 or $10,000 bounty, and like Favre said, bounty or no bounty players are trying to light him up every chance they get. The NFL is just coming down hard on the Saints because it doesn't want blow back from sponsors or to face lawsuits.
I'd honestly be more concerned if Gibbs didn't know about something like this going his own locker room than condoning it. With the way players act it would be pretty absurd for a head coach to not know about something like this. |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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ESPN 980 interviewed a player from Gibb1.0 and he said that Gibbs had bounties back then.
Gibb2.0 was a fragile old man, so it makes sense if he didn't have them. Men soften up in their old age. No pun intended. LMAO |
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3194
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | DarthMonk wrote: | Not taking a side, just asking a question:
If a bounty does not increase the likelihood of big hits and/or dirty hits why have a bounty?
DarthMonk |
Why does your job offer bonuses? To motivate people who have possibly become complacent. OR to just amp up people. It's a game within a game. It fuels competition.
Why do Elem skools offer pizza parties to a classroom that excels at selling chocolate?!?!
OMG BOUNTIES!! |
I'm slow and need clarification. Do the bounties increase the likelihood of big hits and/or dirty hits or not ... in your opinion.
DarthMonk |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| DarthMonk wrote: | I'm slow and need clarification. Do the bounties increase the likelihood of big hits and/or dirty hits or not ... in your opinion.
DarthMonk |
IMO, no... But we can't answer for anyone. For me? I have an unwaverying desire to beat the living hell out of any/all competition I come up against.
I joined my brothers fantasy league, first time ever doing it. I won it. I would have won $1000 but I kicked so much butt early on, that those who didn't give their funds at the start, decided to bail. Did that deter me? Nope. I wanted to continue to further demoralize them.
I went to my nephews birrthday party. Played laser tag with some 12-14 year olds, I destroyed them, no mercy. Doesn't matter to me. LMAO
When I played football in HS, nothing satisfied me more than getting into another guys head. If a guy got a first down on me, I'm gonna hit him. He's gonna pay for my mistake, lmao.
I dunno man. That's just me. I don't need someone to get me going, cus I want to win, I want to demolish, demoralize and make you quit... U have to be crazy to play football, I'm crazy. LOL
So to answer your question, I don't think it'd change or go away. To play football, U want to do damage. Mentally or physically. This isn't a mindset U get in the pro's, it starts young. It's something you're born with.
Lebron = no killer instinct
Kobe = kill everything that moves
Jordan = terminator |
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langleyparkjoe
**LPJ**
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 5991
Location: Langley Park, MD *Tick Tock*
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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CLL.. you play fantasy football????
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SouthLondonRedskin
Hog
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1113
Location: South London, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | DarthMonk wrote: | I'm slow and need clarification. Do the bounties increase the likelihood of big hits and/or dirty hits or not ... in your opinion.
DarthMonk |
IMO, no... But we can't answer for anyone. For me? I have an unwaverying desire to beat the living hell out of any/all competition I come up against.
I joined my brothers fantasy league, first time ever doing it. I won it. I would have won $1000 but I kicked so much butt early on, that those who didn't give their funds at the start, decided to bail. Did that deter me? Nope. I wanted to continue to further demoralize them.
I went to my nephews birrthday party. Played laser tag with some 12-14 year olds, I destroyed them, no mercy. Doesn't matter to me. LMAO
When I played football in HS, nothing satisfied me more than getting into another guys head. If a guy got a first down on me, I'm gonna hit him. He's gonna pay for my mistake, lmao.
I dunno man. That's just me. I don't need someone to get me going, cus I want to win, I want to demolish, demoralize and make you quit... U have to be crazy to play football, I'm crazy. LOL
So to answer your question, I don't think it'd change or go away. To play football, U want to do damage. Mentally or physically. This isn't a mindset U get in the pro's, it starts young. It's something you're born with.
Lebron = no killer instinct
Kobe = kill everything that moves
Jordan = terminator |
OK, I get the picture, you need that mindset in the NFL.
But mate, 12 year olds at laser tag...?!?
C'mon man!!!
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| SouthLondonRedskin wrote: | | Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | DarthMonk wrote: | I'm slow and need clarification. Do the bounties increase the likelihood of big hits and/or dirty hits or not ... in your opinion.
DarthMonk |
IMO, no... But we can't answer for anyone. For me? I have an unwaverying desire to beat the living hell out of any/all competition I come up against.
I joined my brothers fantasy league, first time ever doing it. I won it. I would have won $1000 but I kicked so much butt early on, that those who didn't give their funds at the start, decided to bail. Did that deter me? Nope. I wanted to continue to further demoralize them.
I went to my nephews birrthday party. Played laser tag with some 12-14 year olds, I destroyed them, no mercy. Doesn't matter to me. LMAO
When I played football in HS, nothing satisfied me more than getting into another guys head. If a guy got a first down on me, I'm gonna hit him. He's gonna pay for my mistake, lmao.
I dunno man. That's just me. I don't need someone to get me going, cus I want to win, I want to demolish, demoralize and make you quit... U have to be crazy to play football, I'm crazy. LOL
So to answer your question, I don't think it'd change or go away. To play football, U want to do damage. Mentally or physically. This isn't a mindset U get in the pro's, it starts young. It's something you're born with.
Lebron = no killer instinct
Kobe = kill everything that moves
Jordan = terminator |
OK, I get the picture, you need that mindset in the NFL.
But mate, 12 year olds at laser tag...?!?
C'mon man!!!
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Darn right imma beat my nephews. They'll return the favor as they get older and I get older lol. Nothing but competition. They loved it |
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3194
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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OK. Legit post and answer. Now I'm gonna answer my own question. If bounties do not increase the likelihood of big hits and/or dirty hits then why have them? Because they make it all more fun. I did hear about a special teams guy (on the radio today) crushing someone on a kickoff and as he was running down on the next one the guys on THE OTHER TEAM saying "$500 if you do it again."
On the other hand, is it true the Saints hit Favre 13 times and 4 of them were roughing the passer? If so, was that an unusually high number and was it related to bounties?
DarthMonk
| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | | DarthMonk wrote: | I'm slow and need clarification. Do the bounties increase the likelihood of big hits and/or dirty hits or not ... in your opinion.
DarthMonk |
IMO, no... But we can't answer for anyone. For me? I have an unwaverying desire to beat the living hell out of any/all competition I come up against.
I joined my brothers fantasy league, first time ever doing it. I won it. I would have won $1000 but I kicked so much butt early on, that those who didn't give their funds at the start, decided to bail. Did that deter me? Nope. I wanted to continue to further demoralize them.
I went to my nephews birrthday party. Played laser tag with some 12-14 year olds, I destroyed them, no mercy. Doesn't matter to me. LMAO
When I played football in HS, nothing satisfied me more than getting into another guys head. If a guy got a first down on me, I'm gonna hit him. He's gonna pay for my mistake, lmao.
I dunno man. That's just me. I don't need someone to get me going, cus I want to win, I want to demolish, demoralize and make you quit... U have to be crazy to play football, I'm crazy. LOL
So to answer your question, I don't think it'd change or go away. To play football, U want to do damage. Mentally or physically. This isn't a mindset U get in the pro's, it starts young. It's something you're born with.
Lebron = no killer instinct
Kobe = kill everything that moves
Jordan = terminator |
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Kilmer72
Hog
Joined: 07 Oct 2008
Posts: 1260
Location: Midland, VA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Would it make a difference if a dollar was offered for a big hit? That is just Greg getting something extra out of what he has. That is why to me, he is, if not the best, one of the better DC in the league. His defense had/has holes and he pumps them up. Take out their best player and it is a difference. A dirty illegal hit is something all together different. No one is trying to kill or break necks out there that I am aware of. |
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SouthLondonRedskin
Hog
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1113
Location: South London, UK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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The point is the league can't condone this sort of thing. If a player got hurt and it turned out the culprit was on a bonus to do so and it was common knowledge - then that's a law suit on its way to the league for not clamping down on its teams and their coaches for animalistic behaviour.
Players are already paid to hit people hard, you just can't say it is for that. Its for being a professonal on the team and doing their job well. They don't need to be incentivised for violence, that just looks bad on the league. |
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brad7686
B-rad
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 2988
Location: De La War
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| People really need to shut up. This is going to end up costing us draft picks as well if they don't. It's probly too late as it is. |
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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3875
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Luva Luva wrote: | ESPN 980 interviewed a player from Gibb1.0 and he said that Gibbs had bounties back then.
Gibb2.0 was a fragile old man, so it makes sense if he didn't have them. Men soften up in their old age. No pun intended. LMAO |
No that isn't what George Starke said. He said that Gibbs would give out $100 or Walkmans to players that made big plays. Big hits, sacks, int, and so on!
There was no insferance Gibbs condoned bounties! There is a big difference between play for incentive bonuses and bounties. Bounties you are trying to hurt the guy. Sure having a three sack game probably hurts the QB, but that isn't the intention of the bonus.
Yeah Gibbs was a shell. He batted 500 on making the playoffs (2 out of 4) the other six coaches went 1 time out of 15 seasons. That is a pretty nice shell!
Last edited by skinsfan#33 on Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:18 am; edited 2 times in total |
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The Hogster
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Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 6999
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | Chris Luva Luva wrote: | ESPN 980 interviewed a player from Gibb1.0 and he said that Gibbs had bounties back then.
Gibb2.0 was a fragile old man, so it makes sense if he didn't have them. Men soften up in their old age. No pun intended. LMAO |
No that isn't what George Starke said. He said that Gibbs would give out $100 or Walkmans to players that made big plays. Big hits, sacks, int, and so on!
There was no insferance Gibbs condoned bounties! There is a big difference between play for incentive bonuses and bounties. Bounties you area trying to hurt the guy. Sure having a three sack game probably hurts the QB, but that isn't the intention of the bonus.
Yeah Gibbs was a shell. He batted 500 on making the playoffs (2 out of 4) the other six coaches went 1 time out of 15 seasons. That is a pretty nice shell! |
+1 |
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Chris Luva Luva
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Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 17794
Location: AJT
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | | skinsfan#33 wrote: | | Chris Luva Luva wrote: | ESPN 980 interviewed a player from Gibb1.0 and he said that Gibbs had bounties back then.
Gibb2.0 was a fragile old man, so it makes sense if he didn't have them. Men soften up in their old age. No pun intended. LMAO |
No that isn't what George Starke said. He said that Gibbs would give out $100 or Walkmans to players that made big plays. Big hits, sacks, int, and so on!
There was no insferance Gibbs condoned bounties! There is a big difference between play for incentive bonuses and bounties. Bounties you area trying to hurt the guy. Sure having a three sack game probably hurts the QB, but that isn't the intention of the bonus.
Yeah Gibbs was a shell. He batted 500 on making the playoffs (2 out of 4) the other six coaches went 1 time out of 15 seasons. That is a pretty nice shell! |
+1 |
Look up the definition of the word and you'll see that Gibbs offered bounties... Now what he offered a bounty for may be different than what Gregg allegedly did. |
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