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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3875
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | I think the Skins 2013 1st is just as valuable as the Browns 22nd.
Even if we land RG3, there's a good chance we won't be one of the 10 best teams in the NFL |
While I would agree with you, most nfl teams wouldn't. Two birds in the hand are better than one in hand and one in the bush, even if that one in the bush is a better bird. They would rather have the picks this year.
Who knows how long a coach will have a job. Most need to win now! Jeff Fisher probably has 3 or 4 years to get the Rams headed in the right direction, so maybe he would be more interested in draft pick spread out over a couple of years. |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| DarthMonk wrote: | Could be but here is what I found:
"The popular trade value chart, created by former Dallas Cowboys’ head coach Jimmy Johnson, is somewhat antiquated, but still very useful in determining trade value surrounding NFL draft picks.
A pick in the next year’s draft is tough to value, but most value at the same value as the team’s current year’s pick."
http://www.newerascouting.com/nfl-draft-trade-value-chart/
DarthMonk
| Skeletor wrote: | except that next year's picks are usually downgraded a round for trades. A 1st round pick next year is equal to a 2nd round pick this year...
Or so I've heard... |
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I've always heard picks lose a round of value and slotted as the spot as the current year's pick... next year's second would hold the value of the 7th pick in the 3rd round.
Here's a nice read...
He used equal value from year to year and also devalued future picks 25% per year.
| Quote: | There is a thought floating out there that the Jimmy Johnson draft value chart is outdated. It probably is outdated. In fact, I believe every team in the NFL has their own modified Draft Value Chart that is proprietary to their own team. Top Secret stuff.
I do believe that these proprietary charts are similar to the Jimmy Johnson in that it when graphed it forms a negative non-linear slope. I have referred to it as the "Skateboard Ramp". Jimmy Johnson's Draft Value Chart.
In fact, I believe, in each Draft, each team grades every player and may modify their draft value chart and create a specific draft value chart for that particular year. The slope could have different levels and places of plateau and steepness year to year as you move down the rounds.
The problem is - you have to trade with another NFL team who grades each player slightly or very differently. Each team has their own draft value chart and won't share it with you. So what do you do? You start the conversation around the Jimmy Johnson chart, a publicly shared version that people can agree on as a baseline for a trade. It may exceed or fall short of the Jimmy Johnson specs, but it forms a baseline to start a conversation. That is why I think it may be still relevant (and the Julio Jones trade says it is). |
Some teams may already be looking into this one
Click the Chart for the link that explains the chart values.
IMO: It actually seem to be a better tool. |
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chiefhog44
**ch44
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 2300
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| If we want him, we will get him, we just have to offer more than the Rams. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about who the Rams would want at the number 6 spot. There is the problem. They would want Kalil, gone to Vikings. They would want Blackmon, gone to the Browns. They would want Claiborne, gone to the Bucs. Now what? I'm guessing they would take Coples. Fisher would love to get a defensive cog. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11517
Location: New England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Just what I needed - ANOTHER thread to spray my rhetoric 
It's TRUE - the Browns do have the edge but ...
as many have pointed out here in MANY OTHER threads about the same topic
The Redskins are more than willing to give up the picks that many consider way too much
The Browns are NOT willing to give up too much for RGIII
why does this keep getting discussed
The Browns are NOT giving up what it will take and the Redskins will
PLUS
Fisher is going to give the Redskins the last shot at making the deal work
RGIII is going to be in B&G
I'm STILL stiff for Griff |
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CanesSkins26
Canes Skin
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 6870
Location: Alexandria, VA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| chiefhog44 wrote: | | If we want him, we will get him, we just have to offer more than the Rams. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about who the Rams would want at the number 6 spot. There is the problem. They would want Kalil, gone to Vikings. They would want Blackmon, gone to the Browns. They would want Claiborne, gone to the Bucs. Now what? I'm guessing they would take Coples. Fisher would love to get a defensive cog. |
Excellent points. The Rams aren't going to trade down just for the sake of trading down. They need offensive line and wr help. If they don't like Reiff or Martin that could make it difficult for us to make a deal with them. Our best hope is that the Browns sign Flynn or another veteran qb. |
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chiefhog44
**ch44
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 2300
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| CanesSkins26 wrote: | | chiefhog44 wrote: | | If we want him, we will get him, we just have to offer more than the Rams. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about who the Rams would want at the number 6 spot. There is the problem. They would want Kalil, gone to Vikings. They would want Blackmon, gone to the Browns. They would want Claiborne, gone to the Bucs. Now what? I'm guessing they would take Coples. Fisher would love to get a defensive cog. |
Excellent points. The Rams aren't going to trade down just for the sake of trading down. They need offensive line and wr help. If they don't like Reiff or Martin that could make it difficult for us to make a deal with them. Our best hope is that the Browns sign Flynn or another veteran qb. |
This guy doesn't think the Skins spot is worth it for the Rams and thus will trade with the Browns. I'm getting nervous that we're gonna end up with Tannehill with the 6th pick. The other side of this is there's not much to trade up to the 6th spot for http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22825103/vp/46591996#46591996 |
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Prowl33
swine
Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 58
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't even think about that, who do the Ram's want, and if they trade down to #6, will they still get that person, plus, who do they have someone they want in late round 1 they value as important to their team?
You guys keep saying if the skins want RG3, we will get him. I argue if the Browns want RG3 AND the Skin's want RG3, the Browns will get him, therefor they are really driving this bus, they have more to offer than we do, plain and simple, and they have a greater need than we do in terms of pure desparation. |
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tribeofjudah
tribe
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 5996
Location: SURF CITY, HB, CALI *** Occasionally flying into a SUPERNOVA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: | Just what I needed - ANOTHER thread to spray my rhetoric
It's TRUE - the Browns do have the edge but ...
as many have pointed out here in MANY OTHER threads about the same topic
The Redskins are more than willing to give up the picks that many consider way too much
The Browns are NOT willing to give up too much for RGIII
why does this keep getting discussed
The Browns are NOT giving up what it will take and the Redskins will
PLUS
Fisher is going to give the Redskins the last shot at making the deal work
RGIII is going to be in B&G
I'm STILL stiff for Griff |
MAN CRUSH.....!!! |
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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14721
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| Prowl33 wrote: | | they (the Browns) have a greater need than we do in terms of pure desparation. |
They also have Colt McCoy who they drafted in the first round just two years ago. They aren't as desperate at QB as we are. |
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elprez19
piglet
Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 47
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| They actually drafted McCoy in the third round and i'm sure they would feel good about him as a back up as a third round pick. |
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RedSky
newbie
Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | Prowl33 wrote: | | they (the Browns) have a greater need than we do in terms of pure desparation. |
They also have Colt McCoy who they drafted in the first round just two years ago. They aren't as desperate at QB as we are. |
Colt McCoy was drafted in the 3rd round.
The majority of you still champion this notion that the Browns, having two 1st rounders this year, means they're the leader in the clubhouse for RGIII. I'm not so sure that's the case.
A few over at the NFL Network have finally spoken to a point I've been thinking for quite a while. Casserly and Lombardi now both agree that a trade for the #2 pick "must" include a #1 next year. Casserly even said that if he was the GM of the Rams, he "wouldn't want" the Browns #22 pick this year.
His reasoning consisted of two points; 1.) A 1st rounder in 2013 would most likely be higher than #22. 2.) This 2012 draft class is not stocked with many elite blue chippers. However, the 2013 projected draft class is a bit more appealing with more blue chippers and recognizable names of elite talent at highly sought after positions such as OT, DE, WR, DE/OLB and QB. Therefore, the Rams may not like anyone at #22 this year, but could very well be interested in several prospects next year in the 10-20 range.
So just looking at 1st round compensation, if the Browns are willing to part with the #4, #22 and a #1 next year, then perhaps they have more firepower. But most don't expect the Browns to give up three 1st rounders for one player when they have so many holes to fill.
But if the Skins gave up the #6, a 1st rounder in 2013, and sweetened the pot with extra mid round picks or a player or two, some experts now believe that would be more appealing to the Rams. |
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riggofan
Hog
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2945
Location: Montclair, Virginia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: | Just what I needed - ANOTHER thread to spray my rhetoric
It's TRUE - the Browns do have the edge but ...
as many have pointed out here in MANY OTHER threads about the same topic
The Redskins are more than willing to give up the picks that many consider way too much
The Browns are NOT willing to give up too much for RGIII
why does this keep getting discussed |
Seriously! Can we put a moratorium on this topic of who has the most ammo to move up? Its a nearly meaningless point, not very interesting and really not news to anybody. The trade isn't going to come down to who has the most ammo. It comes down to who is willing to give up the most. That's it.
Is there advertising on this site? Maybe I can buy a flash ad that just reads "WE GET IT. THE BROWNS HAVE TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS." |
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the poster
Hog
Joined: 02 Mar 2012
Posts: 389
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Prowl33 wrote: | I didn't even think about that, who do the Ram's want, and if they trade down to #6, will they still get that person, plus, who do they have someone they want in late round 1 they value as important to their team?
You guys keep saying if the skins want RG3, we will get him. I argue if the Browns want RG3 AND the Skin's want RG3, the Browns will get him, therefor they are really driving this bus, they have more to offer than we do, plain and simple, and they have a greater need than we do in terms of pure desparation. |
which by the way brings up a point of just the cosmic nature of things. near the end of the season, the ny giants played one of their worst games en route to winning the super bowl. they lost to the redskins at home by dropping wide open touchdown passes, committing penalties, and simply not showing up to play.
in doing so, that little loss for the giants:
1. didn't keep them from winning their second super bowl in 5 seasons.
2. flipped the draft position of the browns and redskins
3. could turn out to be the reason why they didn't have to face a potential super star qb in their division for a decade
4. that little meaningless win by Washington could cost them a first round draft pick.
boy when your the giants....even when you lose at the end of the year, you win. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11517
Location: New England
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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This just in - the Browns are not willing to give up the picks it will take to make the trade with the Rams
THE RAMS WILL MAKE A GOOD DEAL WITH THE REDSKINS
RGIII will be at Carlisle, PA getting ready to play in B&G |
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Skinsfan55
+++++++++
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
Posts: 5261
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| The real reason the Browns might win is because they want Claibourne not Blackmon. They will have a shot at him at 4, but probably not at 6. That's where the Skins are at a disadvantage. Then again, the Skins may be more likely to make a big play for RGIII than the Browns. The Browns are a little further behind IMO. |
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