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TCIYM
Hog
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Red_One43 wrote: | From BROODINGBURGUNDY:
| Quote: | I’m hearing confident reports from trustworthy sources that Dalton is quietly drawing an extended look from coaches at Redskins Park...
Some good insight that struck a chord with me today was an astute comparison to Matt Schaub, a successful former pupil of Kyle Shanahan, whose profile coming out of UVa was strikingly similar. Both are more likely to be described as “game managers” than “game breakers,” but both are efficient and adept at exploiting specific defensive weaknesses. |
http://broodingburgundy.com/post/4587276182/dalton |
The following is rather important to the context of the blog:
| Quote: | | Don’t consider this or a promise or a tip (just yet), but every Redskins fan should at least have Andy Dalton on his radar by Draft Day. |
By the way, the source is BleacherReport:
B/R |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| TCIYM wrote: | | Red_One43 wrote: | From BROODINGBURGUNDY:
| Quote: | I’m hearing confident reports from trustworthy sources that Dalton is quietly drawing an extended look from coaches at Redskins Park...
Some good insight that struck a chord with me today was an astute comparison to Matt Schaub, a successful former pupil of Kyle Shanahan, whose profile coming out of UVa was strikingly similar. Both are more likely to be described as “game managers” than “game breakers,” but both are efficient and adept at exploiting specific defensive weaknesses. |
http://broodingburgundy.com/post/4587276182/dalton |
The following is rather important to the context of the blog:
| Quote: | | Don’t consider this or a promise or a tip (just yet), but every Redskins fan should at least have Andy Dalton on his radar by Draft Day. |
By the way, the source is BleacherReport:
B/R |
Wow! So in other words, are you implying that BROODINGBURGUNDY is not credible about his twitter dialogue and "trustworty" sources and saying his sources are BR? Even the BR says that rumors are leaking out of Redskins Park on this subject which means several folks would be privy to the info. BROOD says he got the "tale of the tape" from scouting reports, of course that data is the same. You and I, both have read all of that before.
| Quote: | I enjoyed some great Twitter dialogue today regarding former TCU Horned Frog Andy Dalton, the second-winningest starting quarterback in NCAA history (behind only Colt McCoy)...
I’m hearing confident reports from trustworthy sources that Dalton is quietly drawing an extended look from coaches at Redskins Park. |
http://broodingburgundy.com/post/4587276182/dalton
BR writer says:
| Quote: | | If you ask me, the better fit would by Andy Dalton. Rumors leaking out of Redskins Park say that Kyle Shanahan likes what Dalton brings to the table as well. |
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/662727-2011-washington-redskins-is-jake-locker-or-andy-dalton-the-better-qb-prospect |
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TCIYM
Hog
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Red_One43 wrote: |
Wow! So in other words, are you implying that BROODINGBURGUNDY is not credible about his twitter dialogue and "trustworty" sources and saying his sources are BR? Even the BR says that rumors are leaking out of Redskins Park on this subject which means several folks would be privy to the info. BROOD says he got the "tale of the tape" from scouting reports, of course that data is the same. You and I, both have read all of that before. |
If there are rumors leaking out of Redskins Park on interest in Dalton, then why is no one who actually covers Redskins Park reporting it? Too much else going on in the world of NFL Football? Nothing from the likes of the Post, Times, Examiner? But a guy who runs a fan blog from Duke University in North Carolina has inside information about the goings-on at Redskins Park? As discussed over twitter with another guy who contributes to Bleacher Report an hour before he wrote the piece?
Carrying that one step further, why would a passing offense that progresses from deep to shallow have a high level of interest in a quarterback with unremarkable arm strength? And with the #10 and #41 selections, why would the Redskins reach on Dalton when they could reach on Locker? There are all kinds of reports being written about that one from far more established and credible sources.
There is marked interest in Christian Ponder, and there has been since last season. His arm strength is also unremarkable, however, his IQ is off the charts. He "just gets it." Why not Ponder? He was the hot topic as selection #41 not long ago.
So, are we to believe the Redskins suddenly lost interest in Locker and Ponder but are willing to reach on Dalton? Even assuming they are, there are 15 teams known to be looking for quarterbacks. When are the Redskins supposedly reaching on Dalton? #41? For a 3rd or 4th round graded quarterback?
I'm not saying Brent (The owner of BroodingBurgundy) isn't being told something by someone regarding the Redskins having interest in Dalton. What I am saying is it doesn't have much substance. |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12767
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Kindly remember that 2 years ago, there were volumes of "reports" emanating from Redskins park about interest in Mark Sanchez, which I never believed. I suggested at that time that part of the motivation for that was to increase the odds that the player they really wanted would still be on the board at their pick... I was sniped at by a few, but in the end, Orakpo was available and pounced on.
Rumors are sometimes nothing more than the musing of an under-employed blogger... but sometimes, they are designed to make someone else change their plans...
The pre-draft mind games would confuse even Machiavelli... |
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TCIYM
Hog
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | Kindly remember that 2 years ago, there were volumes of "reports" emanating from Redskins park about interest in Mark Sanchez, which I never believed. I suggested at that time that part of the motivation for that was to increase the odds that the player they really wanted would still be on the board at their pick... I was sniped at by a few, but in the end, Orakpo was available and pounced on.
Rumors are sometimes nothing more than the musing of an under-employed blogger... but sometimes, they are designed to make someone else change their plans...
The pre-draft mind games would confuse even Machiavelli... |
I concur. Where there is smoke there is rarely fire in pre-draft rumblings. |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| TCIYM wrote: | | Red_One43 wrote: |
Wow! So in other words, are you implying that BROODINGBURGUNDY is not credible about his twitter dialogue and "trustworty" sources and saying his sources are BR? Even the BR says that rumors are leaking out of Redskins Park on this subject which means several folks would be privy to the info. BROOD says he got the "tale of the tape" from scouting reports, of course that data is the same. You and I, both have read all of that before. |
If there are rumors leaking out of Redskins Park on interest in Dalton, then why is no one who actually covers Redskins Park reporting it? Too much else going on in the world of NFL Football? Nothing from the likes of the Post, Times, Examiner? But a guy who runs a fan blog from Duke University in North Carolina has inside information about the goings-on at Redskins Park? As discussed over twitter with another guy who contributes to Bleacher Report an hour before he wrote the piece?
Carrying that one step further, why would a passing offense that progresses from deep to shallow have a high level of interest in a quarterback with unremarkable arm strength? And with the #10 and #41 selections, why would the Redskins reach on Dalton when they could reach on Locker? There are all kinds of reports being written about that one from far more established and credible sources.
There is marked interest in Christian Ponder, and there has been since last season. His arm strength is also unremarkable, however, his IQ is off the charts. He "just gets it." Why not Ponder? He was the hot topic as selection #41 not long ago.
So, are we to believe the Redskins suddenly lost interest in Locker and Ponder but are willing to reach on Dalton? Even assuming they are, there are 15 teams known to be looking for quarterbacks. When are the Redskins supposedly reaching on Dalton? #41? For a 3rd or 4th round graded quarterback?
I'm not saying Brent (The owner of BroodingBurgundy) isn't being told something by someone regarding the Redskins having interest in Dalton. What I am saying is it doesn't have much substance. |
Impressive Argument!!!
Not so sure that Dalton is still graded as a 3rd or 4th rounder, but I think that you still made your case.
I also want to remind you of what Brent said that you quoted. He put his disclaimer on it that he was just saying that they were rumors, so Brent was not saying that anybody lost interest in Locker or Ponder.
| Quote: | | Don’t consider this or a promise or a tip (just yet), but every Redskins fan should at least have Andy Dalton on his radar by Draft Day. |
Last edited by Red_One43 on Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | Kindly remember that 2 years ago, there were volumes of "reports" emanating from Redskins park about interest in Mark Sanchez, which I never believed. I suggested at that time that part of the motivation for that was to increase the odds that the player they really wanted would still be on the board at their pick... I was sniped at by a few, but in the end, Orakpo was available and pounced on.
Rumors are sometimes nothing more than the musing of an under-employed blogger... but sometimes, they are designed to make someone else change their plans...
The pre-draft mind games would confuse even Machiavelli... |
OK, we are talking about Vinny here. Are you really going to give Vinny that much credit that he targeted Orakpo and schemed the rumors to get his guy? or is it more likely that Vinny with Dan's blessing (knowing that they didn't exactly care for Campbell) targeted Sanchez and just couldn't swing the deal and lo an behold his guy slipped back in the draft right to him? |
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Countertrey
the 'mudge
Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 12767
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Say what you want... I said what I said then, and was right. It's a common tactic in the NFL, and doesn't require a genius... Vinny qualified. Sometimes, you misdirect to prevent others from becoming aware of whom you are actually interested in, sometimes to influence them to select someone that you want them to be interested in. It is equally likely that the "interest" in Sanchez by the Skins, and then by other teams, helped to increase his "value" in the draft... resulting in a couple of players who had been projected as top 10 being available outside of the top 10. Say what you want, the first round was not a weakness for Vinnie... |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Countertrey wrote: | | Say what you want... I said what I said then, and was right. It's a common tactic in the NFL, and doesn't require a genius... Vinny qualified. Sometimes, you misdirect to prevent others from becoming aware of whom you are actually interested in, sometimes to influence them to select someone that you want them to be interested in. It is equally likely that the "interest" in Sanchez by the Skins, and then by other teams, helped to increase his "value" in the draft... resulting in a couple of players who had been projected as top 10 being available outside of the top 10. Say what you want, the first round was not a weakness for Vinnie... |
No matter what one might believe about the pre-draft goings on of Vinny Cerrato in the 2009 draft, he gets the credit for drafting Orakpo and nobody can take that away from him, so yes, you are right and nobody can take that away from you as well. |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:08 am Post subject: |
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PFT article quoting Peter King of SI.com
| Quote: | “It’s getting very hard for [Bengals offensive coordinator] Jay Gruden to hide how much he loves Andy Dalton,” one quarterback coach told King.
The Bengals have met with Dalton in some form or fashion five times. Dalton figures to be available when the Bengals choose early in the second round, but there has been speculation he could go higher. |
Five times is a lot for a smoke screen, but Rosenthal of PFT thinks it is of some sorts:
| Quote: | | Perhaps the Bengals are just trying to convince everyone they won’t go quarterback at No. 4 overall. We have a feeling they see more value from a wideout or defensive player there, with a quarterback pick like Dalton in the second round. |
My take - Dalton has a lot of qualities that coaches desire (Mike Mayock like him for sure); however, his lack of arm strength is relegating him to what appears to be everyone's fall back and smokescreen guy to cover the teams actual QB desire. |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11512
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Red_One43 wrote: | | No matter what one might believe about the pre-draft goings on of Vinny Cerrato in the 2009 draft, he gets the credit for drafting Orakpo and nobody can take that away from him .... |
I don't look at Cerrato's career in the NFL based on anything but what was left here as a result of his efforts
what an absolute joke this guy turned out to be as far as an NFL talent evaluator is concerned - there is still some doubt (with some) as to who is who in the expression about the Redskins' front office nickname - "dumb and dumber" 
I totally agree though that there is an unbelievable amount of effort made by each and every franchise to disguise and mislead their real intentions
I do not expect many of the media or the so called draft experts (if any) to correctly determine 6 or 7 of the top 20 draft picks |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: | | Red_One43 wrote: | | No matter what one might believe about the pre-draft goings on of Vinny Cerrato in the 2009 draft, he gets the credit for drafting Orakpo and nobody can take that away from him .... |
I don't look at Cerrato's career in the NFL based on anything but what was left here as a result of his efforts
what an absolute joke this guy turned out to be as far as an NFL talent evaluator is concerned - there is still some doubt (with some) as to who is who in the expression about the Redskins' front office nickname - "dumb and dumber" |
SkinsJock, I am not going to ask where's your evidence for this, because the evidence is abounding. |
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PulpExposure
Pushing Paper
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Posts: 4461
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| SkinsJock wrote: |
I do not expect many of the media or the so called draft experts (if any) to correctly determine 6 or 7 of the top 20 draft picks |
Interesting, Kiper correctly picked the top 6 picks last year, only missing the order of Okung and Williams (he had the Skins drafting Okung, and the Hawks drafting Williams). He also successfully picked several players to go in the top 20 (though with the wrong team), such as Spiller, McClain, Thomas, Haden, Morgan, Pierre-Paul, and Graham. Finally, he did nail Pouncey to the Steelers, and Davis to the Niners, as well. So, even in a year with a lot of moves in the top 20, he correctly predicted 16 of the top 20 choices...and 6 with the correct pick. Kind of impressive, actually.
Of course, he also had Jimmy Clausen going 8th overall to the Raiders... |
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SkinsJock
08 Champ
Joined: 24 Feb 2004
Posts: 11512
Location: New England
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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There have been some incredibly accurate predictions over the years but I think that most years you can count on an Al Davis or someone to screw things up royally
I'll be interested to see - given that there's not a lot of great talent and no free agency - how close the top 10 are to what is predicted by the better guys - now this includes draft pick trading, because that is a 'part' of a franchise's plan after all
I'm not saying I could do very well at all - I just think that these guys seem to indicate to all of us that they are so sure of a franchise's needs and then we find out that the franchise was thinking something else entirely
welcome to the week before the NFL draft - it will be interesting |
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Red_One43
Hog
Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 4606
Location: D.C.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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From Pete_Prisco:
| Quote: | There have been some reports that the Washington Redskins are looking to trade up to draft a quarterback.
I hear it's the exact opposite.
According to a league source, the Redskins are looking to trade down in the first round with the idea they will draft either Florida State quarterback Christian Ponder or TCU quarterback Andy Dalton. |
http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6315047/28610589
Hey TCIYM, is this another one whose "credible source" is BR? |
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