Let Orakpo go

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby riggofan » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:55 am

Deadskins wrote:Orakpo counted 5.1 million against the cap this season, and his projected FA salary would be about 10 million (franchise tag would mean ~11 million) or double this year's mark. Is he worth double?


I think that depends on the alternatives a little bit, doesn't it?

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby Kilmer72 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 6:05 pm

riggofan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Orakpo counted 5.1 million against the cap this season, and his projected FA salary would be about 10 million (franchise tag would mean ~11 million) or double this year's mark. Is he worth double?


I think that depends on the alternatives a little bit, doesn't it?


Exactly. Either you have a bull rushing maniac or....? Rob? Rob is decent but he isn't our best pass rush.

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby HEROHAMO » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:08 am

Never thought Id be saying this but he does not deserve elite money. I blame Haslett for him not being in the best position to succeed though. So its kind of tough.

If we had a real defensive guru I wouldnt mind keeping him. If we continue with the same putrid defense whats the use in overpaying for him?

It depends on who we draft and who we sign in free agency. If we shore up the secondary, get another solid inside linebacker and maybe even another run stuffing DT/NT then maybe?
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby UK Skins Fan » Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:20 am

Orakpo is the best we've got, but isn't worth "elite" money. It's a tough one, and may come down to what the new defensive coaching staff think of him, and whether they feel they can make the best use of him to fulfill his potential.

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby Deadskins » Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:56 pm

HEROHAMO wrote:It depends on who we draft and who we sign in free agency. If we shore up the secondary, get another solid inside linebacker and maybe even another run stuffing DT/NT then maybe?

Problem is, you can't wait because he is a FA, and free agency comes before the draft.
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby Neo » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:57 am

Why not a reasonable contract w/ performance incentives? Elite play = elite money.

If he doesn't like that, its his unspoken acknowledgment that he knows he's lost a step over the past couple years.
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby Deadskins » Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:54 am

I don't think he's lost a step. He's just never developed any moves other than a speed rush, and is not the elite pass rusher that he thinks he is, or that he should be.
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:02 am

Deadskins wrote:I don't think he's lost a step. He's just never developed any moves other than a speed rush, and is not the elite pass rusher that he thinks he is, or that he should be.

make him the offer that's 'fair' - if the defensive guys think he's important to keep it should be a good deal for both sides ...

then .... add incentives to make it more likely he will sign if the defensive guys really do not want him to leave
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby riggofan » Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:31 am

I think we'll make him a good offer to keep him here. Haslett was already quoted as saying, "Pay the man".

Here's what Rich Tandler wrote this morning:
LB Brian Orakpo—It seems likely that the Redskins will make a very fair offer to the player who has been at least tied for the team lead in sacks every season he’s played for them except for the one where he missed 14 games due to injury. There is a chance, however, that another team could come in and make an offer that is well above market price. The Redskins could lose him if that happens. Another option is the franchise tag but the team will have to decide if he’s worth right around $10 million for the 2014 season. Chances of returning 70%


That makes sense to me and is in line with what a lot of you guys are writing. Consensus seems to be that we should try to keep Rak, but don't be stupid about it.

There are thoughts on a couple other Redskins FAs in that article btw if you are interested:
http://realredskins.com/2014/01/13/need ... -who-goes/

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:41 am

riggofan wrote:I think we'll make him a good offer to keep him here. Haslett was already quoted as saying, "Pay the man".

Here's what Rich Tandler wrote this morning:
LB Brian Orakpo—It seems likely that the Redskins will make a very fair offer to the player who has been at least tied for the team lead in sacks every season he’s played for them except for the one where he missed 14 games due to injury. There is a chance, however, that another team could come in and make an offer that is well above market price. The Redskins could lose him if that happens. Another option is the franchise tag but the team will have to decide if he’s worth right around $10 million for the 2014 season. Chances of returning 70%


That makes sense to me and is in line with what a lot of you guys are writing. Consensus seems to be that we should try to keep Rak, but don't be stupid about it.

There are thoughts on a couple other Redskins FAs in that article btw if you are interested:
http://realredskins.com/2014/01/13/need ... -who-goes/


I'll agree with that - it would seem that Orakpo did not help himself a lot this year but that also could be said for almost any player that's a part of a 3-13 team

we may lose him but I hope if we do it's because some other franchise pays him a lot more than he could be worth and not a lot more than what he's worth

Orakpo is worth a lot more than we all saw this past season and we need to pay him accordingly

and

put the players around him that will make him even better
Robert Griffin will become a really good QB he's talented and smart

hopefully Kirk Cousins can make things happen till RG3 is ready to play again

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby rskin72 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:32 pm

Well, I am no stat geek....but some google work came up with following:

2013 top base salary LB = Tamba Hali KC at 12,250,000 mil per season, age 30
2013 stats - GP -15; Comb - 46; total - 39; Asst - 7; Sacks -11

Rak Stats, age 27 - 2013 - GP 15; Comb - 60; total - 43; Asst - 17; sacks - 10

Comparing the two over the same amount of years....removing 2012 from both (Rak's injury season) so 2009, 10, 11 and 13 we have:

Rak - GP 62; Comb - 225; total - 150; Asst - 75; sacks - 38.5

Hali - GP -63; Comb - 225; total - 169; Asst - 56; Sacks - 46

Bottom line is Rak comes out pretty favorable there. The next largest base salary is David HArris (ILB) at 10,900,000 Here are his stats over same timeframe:

Harris - GP -64; Comb - 435; total - 286; Asst - 149; Sacks - 15.5

Guess you cannot really compare due to ILB vs OLB position.....but the next highest base salary for OLB is only 6,900,000 to Chad Greenway of Minn....so here are his stats over same timeframe:

GReenway - GP -64; Comb - 531; total - 361; Asst - 170; Sacks - 6.0

So if anything it looks like Greenway may be a bargain for Minn right now. Rak does seem to compare favorably to the highest paid OLB in 2013. I would think maybe just south of 10 mil....but again I am not a money guy....just did a little research because I was interested , and also bored at work. Looked up $$ info at following link....they break down all the players salaries, base, bonus, timeframe, etc....for those interested.

http://www.spotrac.com/rankings/nfl/out ... /limit-25/
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby yupchagee » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:23 pm

I think we should keep him because:
1) You can't replace somebody with nobody, & I don't see an adequate replacement in sight.
2) A good coach can teach him some more moves.
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:29 pm

yupchagee wrote:I think we should keep him because:
1) You can't replace somebody with nobody, & I don't see an adequate replacement in sight.
2) A good coach can teach him some more moves.


and if Haslett is the DC and really wants him because he knows he will be a force in the defense we're going to have this season, even more reason to "pay the man" :twisted:
Robert Griffin will become a really good QB he's talented and smart

hopefully Kirk Cousins can make things happen till RG3 is ready to play again

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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby rskin72 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:45 pm

OK....some more numbers from some well known OLB's....performance numbers are 2013:

Tamba Hali; 57.5 mil 5 year contract; 14.823,530 mil bonus; 35 mil guaranteed; 2011 first year

Terrell Suggs (31); 62.5 mil 6 yrs; 10.1 mil bonus; 38.1 mil guaranteed; 2009 first year
GP, 16; Combined tackles 80; total tackles 47; assisted tackles 33; sacks 10

Lance Briggs (33); 17.5 mil 3 yrs; 3 mil bonus; 8,25mil guaranteed; 2012 first year
GP, 9; Combined tackles 71; total tackles 50; assisted tackles 20; sacks 3

Robert Mathis (32) 4 yrs 36 mil, 15 mil bonus, 17mil guaranteed. 2012 first year
GP, 16; Combined tackles 59; total tackles 43; assisted tackles 16; sacks 19.5

Ahmad Brooks (29) 6 yrs 40.4 mil; 7.5 mil bonus; 8.25 mil guaranteed. 2012 first year
GP 16; Combined tackles 60; total tackles 52; assisted tackled 8; sacks 8.5


Ok.....my take looking over the numbers is Hali is overpaid. Now, I do not see KC games, so no eyeball test here. I do not put Rak into same disruptive category as Suggs, or Briggs (who only played 9 games this season). I would try for some type of Brooks deal....maybe more guarenteed money...maybe somewhere between 8-9 mil per season including bonus....or longer term contract for a little less per season. And try and lock him up for a longer contract as he is only 27.

Think we need to aggressively pursue keeping our talent, and Rak is certainly that.
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Re: Let Orakpo go

Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:40 pm

riggofan wrote:I think we'll make him a good offer to keep him here. Haslett was already quoted as saying, "Pay the man".

Here's what Rich Tandler wrote this morning:
LB Brian Orakpo—It seems likely that the Redskins will make a very fair offer to the player who has been at least tied for the team lead in sacks every season he’s played for them except for the one where he missed 14 games due to injury. There is a chance, however, that another team could come in and make an offer that is well above market price. The Redskins could lose him if that happens. Another option is the franchise tag but the team will have to decide if he’s worth right around $10 million for the 2014 season. Chances of returning 70%


That makes sense to me and is in line with what a lot of you guys are writing. Consensus seems to be that we should try to keep Rak, but don't be stupid about it.

There are thoughts on a couple other Redskins FAs in that article btw if you are interested:
http://realredskins.com/2014/01/13/need ... -who-goes/


Sounds about right to me. I don't really like the idea of a franchise tag, but that's probably being over conservative. If another team overpays for the man, I won't begrudge him the money or be terribly sorry to see him go. At that point, it's business. I hope the Redskins can stand their ground if need be.
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