Shanahasn't and never will

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:39 pm

DarthMonk wrote:SJ - your last few posts seem to simply argue for the sake of arguing. Fixing something that is not broken is a common phrase and clearly applies to our good 4-3 that became a bad 3-4. As for demotions, if the alternatives are coaching DBs and not having a job, the choice is clear. Nevertheless, going from D Coordinator to DB coach is a demotion.

I tried to not sound like a dick there. I know I have sounded that way in a lot of my posts lately.


no worries - technically, I agree that going from being a DC to being a position coach is a 'demotion'
there are instances where the guy is just out of his depth and while he's 'demoted' he still has a job and may benefit from the new opportunity
to me Norv Turner is really a good OC - he is not a bad HC but he's more 'value' as a OC - there are quite a few guys that I think are better off not being 'promoted'

I understand that we saw our defense go from being a good 4-3 to being a bad 3-4 - I'm not convinced that was solely due to the scheme - why is the defense this season so bad compared to last season? I know that Fletcher is older but we're seeing other guys not play as well as they did and the scheme is the same - I contend that defensive coaching by Mike & Haslett is more the cause of the defensive issues than the scheme - both now and back when we switched

I do agree with Mike and Bill Belicheat, having a good 3-4 defense is better in todays NFL than having a good 4-3 defense

I will say this - I don't think that Mike should have tried going to the 3-4

Like a lot of things that Mike does - he made a mistake that he did not need to and thought that his 'coaching' would 'save the day'


I give him credit - he and Bruce have this team on the path to success - we have the QB and were incredibly lucky to get Morris

we are getting better
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Kilmer72 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:52 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:SJ - your last few posts seem to simply argue for the sake of arguing. Fixing something that is not broken is a common phrase and clearly applies to our good 4-3 that became a bad 3-4. As for demotions, if the alternatives are coaching DBs and not having a job, the choice is clear. Nevertheless, going from D Coordinator to DB coach is a demotion.

I tried to not sound like a dick there. I know I have sounded that way in a lot of my posts lately.


no worries - technically, I agree that going from being a DC to being a position coach is a 'demotion'
there are instances where the guy is just out of his depth and while he's 'demoted' he still has a job and may benefit from the new opportunity
to me Norv Turner is really a good OC - he is not a bad HC but he's more 'value' as a OC - there are quite a few guys that I think are better off not being 'promoted'

I understand that we saw our defense go from being a good 4-3 to being a bad 3-4 - I'm not convinced that was solely due to the scheme - why is the defense this season so bad compared to last season? I know that Fletcher is older but we're seeing other guys not play as well as they did and the scheme is the same - I contend that defensive coaching by Mike & Haslett is more the cause of the defensive issues than the scheme - both now and back when we switched

I do agree with Mike and Bill Belicheat, having a good 3-4 defense is better in todays NFL than having a good 4-3 defense

I will say this - I don't think that Mike should have tried going to the 3-4

Like a lot of things that Mike does - he made a mistake that he did not need to and thought that his 'coaching' would 'save the day'


I give him credit - he and Bruce have this team on the path to success - we have the QB and were incredibly lucky to get Morris

we are getting better


I don't think it is solely due to the scheme either. If you tackle better then you have a shot at being a better defense. The problem is coaching and personnel.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

Because Shanahan makes every important decision, he’s responsible for every important result. In his years, Washington has ranked 20th, 22nd, 22nd and now 30th in points allowed . That’s an average ranking of 24th in a 32-team league. That’s the worst defensive standing, relative to the whole league, in the reign of any Redskins coach since Otto Graham in the ’60s.


things might be different next year with some added FA.

In Shanahan’s final two years in Denver, his Broncos ranked 28th and 30th in points allowed (409 and 448). In other words, his last two Broncos teams gave up more points than the two worst Redskins teams of the entire 16-game-season NFL era of the past 35 years.

Those Denver defenses got him fired in Colorado.


It's true he was running a 43 but he isn't Joe Gibbs. He has a hard time picking coaches that know what they are doing. Look at Burns.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby RayNAustin » Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:20 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:SJ - your last few posts seem to simply argue for the sake of arguing. Fixing something that is not broken is a common phrase and clearly applies to our good 4-3 that became a bad 3-4. As for demotions, if the alternatives are coaching DBs and not having a job, the choice is clear. Nevertheless, going from D Coordinator to DB coach is a demotion.

I tried to not sound like a dick there. I know I have sounded that way in a lot of my posts lately.


no worries - technically, I agree that going from being a DC to being a position coach is a 'demotion'
there are instances where the guy is just out of his depth and while he's 'demoted' he still has a job and may benefit from the new opportunity
to me Norv Turner is really a good OC - he is not a bad HC but he's more 'value' as a OC - there are quite a few guys that I think are better off not being 'promoted'

I understand that we saw our defense go from being a good 4-3 to being a bad 3-4 - I'm not convinced that was solely due to the scheme - why is the defense this season so bad compared to last season? I know that Fletcher is older but we're seeing other guys not play as well as they did and the scheme is the same - I contend that defensive coaching by Mike & Haslett is more the cause of the defensive issues than the scheme - both now and back when we switched

I do agree with Mike and Bill Belicheat, having a good 3-4 defense is better in todays NFL than having a good 4-3 defense

I will say this - I don't think that Mike should have tried going to the 3-4

Like a lot of things that Mike does - he made a mistake that he did not need to and thought that his 'coaching' would 'save the day'


I give him credit - he and Bruce have this team on the path to success - we have the QB and were incredibly lucky to get Morris

we are getting better


Right now, we're on a path to 3-8 ... with last year's superstar QB looking far from super.

That's not success,

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby RayNAustin » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:22 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:I'm going to rant here for a second because I really think there are a lot of you here that know very little about football.


So, anyone who does't agree with you, doesn't know much about football. Interesting. What exactly are your superior qualifications that make you such an authority?

.
skinsfan#33 wrote:
- Some "brilliant person" here accused the coaches of using a Ferrari as a demolition derby car. That is just silly, they used a Ferrari as a Ferrari, they can't help it that the Ferrari drove its self into a dump truck and some pick up trucks.


That brilliant person would be me. And if you aren't too lazy to do it, go back through my posts during the earlier part of the season last year, and note my stated concern for how much they were running RG3, how many hits he was taking, and how I believed using him in that manner was much too risky, and could end in disaster.

And what actually happened? It ended in disaster. Of course, a miracle also occurred, and RG3's play was exciting ... but a disaster occurred just as I.feared And this was also voiced by many NFL analysts, noting that RG3 was not built like a Cam Newton, and might not be able to withstand the punishment. And this was a concern right out of the gate when we drafted him ... people concerned that running QB's don't last long in the NFZl. We were assured that RG3 was a throw first QB that had the ability to run too. But that's not exactly what happened, right? He ran for over 800 yards, if I recall. Those are RB numbers, not throw first QB numbers. Robert's running ability was the crack Kyle couldn't stop smoking. The temptation was too strong, so the continued, and ran him till

the wheels fell off. THAT was why I said they took a ferrari and ran him like a .demo derby car, and that IS A TRUE STATEMENT!

skinsfan#33 wrote:People here act like Kylec only has a job because of Mike. This is moronic! Kyle had the #1 passing game in Huston before coming here. He would have a job with our with it Mike. Look at this year, the team is#5 on offense with aQB that is playing poorly. Every good game they get out of Griffin, they either win or have a chance to win.

- Mike only had success with Steve Young or John Elway. Well neither of those two won a SB with out Mike either. They played for many years w/o him and never won a championship. They played with him as their coach for a few years each and they have a total of three SBs. Tom Landry never won anything w/o Roger the Dodger, same for Knoll/Bradshaw, Belicheat/Brady, or even Lombardi/Starr. So please give up those ridiculous "he never won anything with out" rants. You just sound stupid.


Mike Shanahan HAS NOT WON SQUAT since Elway retired. That's not "stupid", that's a damned fact. And he hasn't done squat here either, except a miracle finish last year that almost killed the most valuable franchise player they have that they had to trade the farm to get.

Kyle is the same story ... the Redskin offense couldn't get out of it's own way the first teo years, and only worked last year because it was a Baylor QB running a Baylor offense.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:02 pm

Mike Shanahan has done a couple of really good things …

we have a FO

and

we have a franchise QB

we are on a path to seeing a consistently competitive product on the field each week

he may not be here long, but he did get this franchise started in the right direction
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Deadskins » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:28 am

RayNAustin wrote:And if you aren't too lazy to do it, go back through my posts during the earlier part of the season last year, and note my stated concern for how much they were running RG3, how many hits he was taking, and how I believed using him in that manner was much too risky, and could end in disaster.

And what actually happened? It ended in disaster. Of course, a miracle also occurred, and RG3's play was exciting ... but a disaster occurred just as I.feared And this was also voiced by many NFL analysts, noting that RG3 was not built like a Cam Newton, and might not be able to withstand the punishment. And this was a concern right out of the gate when we drafted him ... people concerned that running QB's don't last long in the NFZl. We were assured that RG3 was a throw first QB that had the ability to run too. But that's not exactly what happened, right? He ran for over 800 yards, if I recall. Those are RB numbers, not throw first QB numbers. Robert's running ability was the crack Kyle couldn't stop smoking. The temptation was too strong, so the continued, and ran him till

the wheels fell off. THAT was why I said they took a ferrari and ran him like a .demo derby car, and that IS A TRUE STATEMENT!

Actually, it's not. The play RGIII got hurt on was not a designed running play. He was scrambling, and it was a freak accident. Now, I happen to agree with you about pulling him in the Seattle game after he re-injured the knee, but the injury in the Ravens game could have happened to Peyton Manning just as easily. It had nothing to do with Kyle's play calling or how they used RGIII, and it certainly doesn't make your, or the analysts', predictions any more correct.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:54 am

:lol: the devil is in the details and JSPB is a stickler for accuracy :lol:
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby RayNAustin » Sat Nov 23, 2013 4:32 pm

Deadskins wrote:Actually, it's not. The play RGIII got hurt on was not a designed running play. He was scrambling, and it was a freak accident. Now, I happen to agree with you about pulling him in the Seattle game after he re-injured the knee, but the injury in the Ravens game could have happened to Peyton Manning just as easily. It had nothing to do with Kyle's play calling or how they used RGIII, and it certainly doesn't make your, or the analysts', predictions any more correct.


It does't matter what play was called when he got injured. This is a type of surface level analysis that is more excuse making as opposed to offering anything of value. Shanahan (both of them) have also insisted that RG3 is in just as much or more danger in the pocket, as he is running. Everyone knows that's a load of bs too.

The real point is, an offense that focused so heavily on running options, further instilled a run mentality in a young player that brought that with him already. Whether it was a designed run play, or a scramble that he got injured on is irrelevant, and coincidental ... it could just as easily been a called run.

Furthermore, I really shouldn't have to point out that wear and tear accumulates, and that accumulating stress can contribute to injury, and increases the odds of injury occurring. But it's the mindset being galvanized in a player that is already an extreme competitor who is naturally fearless that coaches need to be careful dealing with. Sure, his ability to run is a weapon not everyone has, and it's an extreme temptation to overly rely on it, but if you want this kid to be your franchise QB for the next dozen years, YOU CAN'T DO IT ... HE WON'T SURVIVE IT. So you have the choice of crafting an offense that incorporates the threat, without actually over using that and risk the health and longevity of your most valuable asset, or you can throw caution to the wind for the short term gratification and use him to save your own azz, because you can't figure out how to get the offense in gear unless RG3 is leaping tall buildings in a single bound.

I cite the decision to continue playing him hurt as just another demonstration of this staff's poor judgment. I've harped on this before, but that play they ran in which RG3 was a receiver, and ultimately got hammered by a safety, is the perfect example of extreeeeeemly poor judgment, bordering on "hey idiot ... you're fired" kinda thing.

Now we're hearing about strained relations ... not just between RG3 and the Shanahans, but some of the players too ... talk of a diva mentality, and so forth. His play this year is also a concern ... and don't give me this line about missing preseason games ... he's got 10 games under his belt, says the knee is fine, yet everything is skewed ... bad mechanics resulting in poor accuracy ... poor decisions ... reckless with ball security ... this is A COACHING ISSUE!!! I don't know the dirty details, but somebody isn't teaching, or somebody is being difficult to teach.

Hello?? Anybody looking at this with their glasses on? We already know this staff couldn't seem to get on the same page with McNabb ... there was serious tension early on, and while you all may be satisfied with accepting the company line, there are usually two sides to every story.

Just say'n

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Deadskins » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:00 pm

Some of what you are saying, I completely agree with, but some of it is that very "surface level analysis" you are accusing me of. Yes, hits are cumulative, and can lead to an injury over time, but that's not the case with this particular injury. His injury had absolutely nothing to do with repeated hits, or even the hit he took on that particular play. It was a freak accident that resulted from his body position causing his leg to move like a whip, and his knee hyper-extended. I have no doubt that there are coaching issues behind our poor season, and I have no love for the Shanahans either. But to crow about how you were right all along because RGIII did, in fact, sustain an injury last year is like saying the fence you put up to keep elephants out of your yard is doing it's job because you haven't had any trample your garden. Freak accidents happen. Jabari Greer landed wrong and his knee blew out. Not every injury can be so neatly put into your little "Ferrari in a demolition derby" model.

Just say'n.
Last edited by Deadskins on Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Kilmer72 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 9:35 pm

Seems I am not a believer in this quick zone blocking scheme. It's just my opinion but I have said this before and I will again. Smash mouth!!!! The NFC East despite how weak we look, is brutal and throw back. I realize we haven't done so bad against division rivals, but when you play finesse style of ball, you are giving up pass protection. (I thought this is where they would excel) Maybe it is because of mistakes made as in taking certain picks in the draft and failing. Maybe it is coaching. Maybe Shanahan is taking to much on at once. This is what Marty wanted and when things weren't looking good... a rift between Dan and Marty.

I don't know how good he was or is but can Allen actually GM this team? I mean, have him step in after the season and take over responsibilities? (Fire and hire coaches) It just seems to me that Shanahan does better when he doesn't have total control.

When you look back at the team's best period of success last season, this is an offense that operated best in motion and/or with the use of deception. Pass blocking is more difficult than run blocking and the Redskins offensive linemen are not built to operate in a phone booth. The clock for Robert Griffin III in the pocket is understandably shorter than most of his counterparts.

The automatic response to this would suggest that this is a shortcoming of this offense, but it's actually one that suits this squad. Shanahan prefers smaller, more athletic linemen to operate the zone blocking scheme in the run game.


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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby RayNAustin » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:04 pm

Deadskins wrote:Some of what you are saying, I completely agree with, but some of it is that very "surface level analysis" you are accusing me of. Yes, hits are cumulative, and can lead to an injury over time, but that's not the case with this particular injury. His injury had absolutely nothing to do with repeated hits, or even the hit he took on that particular play. It was a freak accident that resulted from his body position causing his leg to move like a whip, and his knee hyper-extended. I have no doubt that there are coaching issues behind our poor season, and I have no love for the Shanahans either. But to crow about how you were right all along because RGIII did, in fact, sustain an injury last year is like saying the fence you put ujp to keep elephants out of your yard is doing it's job because you haven't had any trample your garden. Freak accidents happen. Jabari Greer landed wrong and his knee blew out. Not every injury can be so neatly put into your little "Ferrari in a demolition derby" model.

Just say'n.

I don't intend to belabor the point, but the injury he sustained against baltimore was reported to be a hyperextension. The injuries he suffered which left him crumpled on the turf requied repair of the ACL and MCL ... not exactly the same thing. So either "they lied" about the severity of his original injury, and played him with torn ligaments, or he suffered additional damage playing on the weakened hyperextened joint, leading to the more severe damage.

So, it is not a simple case of ONE FREAK ACCIDENT, as you keep insisting.

Just say'n

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:21 pm

sorry Ray - I agree with JSPB in that Mike may not be 'the' head coach we'd like but he has done a lot in helping to rebuild this franchise and IMHO he and Kyle have helped Robert in the transition from a 'college type QB' to being able to better lead an offense in the NFL

the process is ongoing but Robert and the Redskins will be better off for it in the long term
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Bishop Hammer » Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:36 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:Not sure how much truth there is to this but I have heard that RGIII and the Shanahan's are not getting along. I am willing to bet that Danny Boy picks RGIII over Shanahan, anyone else heard this? It was on NFL and I think the post...I know where there is smoke there is fire, and during last Sunday's game when Helu missed that block and RGIII got sacked and he went to the sidelines it looked like he was cussing Kyle out. I wish I could read lips!!!

I honestly believe there is some truth to this. Too many reports about dissention between them for it to be utterly false.


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I told my wrath my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe
I told it not my wrath did grow.

And I watered it with fears
Night and morning with my tears,
And I Sunned it with smiles
And with soft deceitful wiles.

And it grew both day and night
Til it bore an apple bright,
And my foe beheld its shine,
And he knew it was mine-

And into my garden stole
When the night had veiled the pole;
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My foe outstretched below the tree.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Kilmer72 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:01 am

It was so bad on Sunday that Shanahan had to interrupt whatever it is Mike Shanahan does on Sunday when he is not coaching football to come out and make a statement about the latest shot to SuperBob – “playing the hits.”



“The story is completely false,” Shanahan said. “There’s just no truth to it.”


The SuperBob diva storyline is a runaway train.


It doesn’t matter if the questions are fair. The fact that Shanahan feels the need to go out of his way to address them on an NFL Sunday shows that they are being taken seriously inside Redskins Park.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z2lfooeVds
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter


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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:44 am

Kilmer72 wrote:
It was so bad on Sunday that Shanahan had to interrupt whatever it is Mike Shanahan does on Sunday when he is not coaching football to come out and make a statement about the latest shot to SuperBob – “playing the hits.”



“The story is completely false,” Shanahan said. “There’s just no truth to it.”


The SuperBob diva storyline is a runaway train.


It doesn’t matter if the questions are fair. The fact that Shanahan feels the need to go out of his way to address them on an NFL Sunday shows that they are being taken seriously inside Redskins Park.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z2lfooeVds
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter


There is a little trouble in paradise. We have to win tonight.


Damage control at it's purest form :lol: I believe Red Lobster and that arrogant twit of his is outta here at the end of the season. Jim Haslett and Keith Burns as well. Hopefully that time comes quick.

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