Shanahasn't and never will

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Shanahasn't and never will

Postby hanburgerheel » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:24 pm

I wanna begin with some background on me. I am a newer poster here. But, I have been a Redskins fan since I was a little boy growing up in the 1970's in Petersburg, Virginia. I am a third-generation Redskins fan. My grandfather was a fan when they were in Boston. Now, I am NOT on here "trolling" at all. I went to UNC CHapel Hill and that is why I chose HanburgerHeel (I was a huge fan of Chris as a little boy. I even had a #55 jersey).

Now, to my topic point.

The coaching staff of this team is absolute garbage. This Shanahan Experiment is DONE. It is D-O-N-E! He is washed-up and he probably only took this job to get his son some notoriety and some exposure. His son is a terrible OC. On his best day he is mediocre. Mike Shanahan was never a great head coach even in Denver. He had a great team and a legendary QB that was already dominant before he ever showed up. Shanahan's record and product on-the-field in Washington is abysmal. Look at his seasons prior to acquiring Griffin and Morris- embarrassing. Make no mistake, last year's success was equally due to Morris as it was Griffin. So, last season they manage to squeak-out a division title...barely...and then what? They almost ruin the guy they paid through the nose for, for good! Now, this season they will come in LAST in the division! It's complete regression. They now have all the players that were injured last season and they STILL cannot get them to perform. They took a #4 defense to the cellar of the NFL. They have under-performed and underachieved in every facet. They managed to shuffle some deals for a high draft pick..and they got a project. I like Robert Griffin, but he is not, in my opinion, the kind of QB that can carry an NFL team very far. He was a very good college QB in a conference that allowed his style more. I will even accept that Griffin is useable and can develop. But, this coaching staff is more likely to destroy him and his potential before he ever develops. The defense is so bad, there's no need to even address it. We know how atrocious the defense is. And, this DC actually managed a CONTRACT EXTENSION last season??? I don't know who is culpable for this team's overall fiasco. But, whoever is paying the bills is out of their minds. Either that, or Haslett's agent must have naked pics of the owner with animals or something. I don't know Bruce Allen's credentials, honestly. I know he is a leftover from a legacy long since gone. George Allen was a good coach. That doesn't make his son a good anything when it comes to football.

You can continue to defend this laughing-stock of a failure of a coaching staff. But, I bet both my balls that Mike & Son are going to be gone. They can go this season or next season when they paint targets on our feet again. I would rather move on to a new coach asap. It does not take 5 years anymore to cultivate a good team in the NFL. Look at Andy Reid at KC. They were the bottom last year, now they are the top. Shanahan can't even manage a decent record but once in 4 years. If that's the best he can do... then he's not a HOF coach by a long shot.

Show Daddy & Son the door, and take the joke of a staff with them. Find someone who wants to make the team great. Change the damn mascot if you have to. I'm sick of languishing in mediocrity and sub-par performance. Find a former head coach like Capers as your DC. I see many OC's and DC's who are great that were former HC's, but are more effective as coordinators. I would discourage trying to pull from the college ranks. And, never take an obsolete college coach like Steve friggin' Spurrier. This Shanahan lame horse needs to be shot now.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:24 am

Welcome aboard.

I want to correct a couple of things you said. Shanny took a team that HE BUILT to the SB, twice, not a team he inherited! He only had a handful of layers left over from a Wade Phillips coaches Broncos team. Those were some really good players, but they had never won anything with out Shanny. That is what gets me when people say Shanny has never won anything w/o Elway, because the same is true for Elway never winning anything w/o Shanny.

The same can be said for almost every SB winning coach especially those coaches with multiple SB wins. Those coaches have never won anything with out their HoF QB, except of course Gibbs.

The biggest problem I have with Shanny is the fact that he hired the wrong guy at defensive coordinator and has stuck with him. He also let Danny Smith go to his hometown team, which I was fine with, but he didn't hit a competent replacement. Lets be candid here Keith Burns and Jim Haslett shouldn't have a coordinator job on any NFL team and no division 1A NCAA team.

With all that said neither of those two idiots missed wide open wide receivers by ten yards o or their a shot put pass up for grabs into th back of the end zone when he had another play. Neither of those coaches did their best bull fighter impersonation using their ole tackling technique throughout the game but especially in the first half.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby StorminMormon86 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:32 am

I could care less if he's fired before the 5 years are up, but I do not want him or his coordinators back after year 5.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:06 am

I think that Mike is going to be here next season but I doubt that Haslett will be and I'm sure that Burns will not be …

I'm really disappointed that we have not seen this group play as well together as they are capable - not sure if that is on the coaching staff, but …

coaches do not throw the ball badly or tackle badly …. ;furious;
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Deadskins » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:19 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:That is what gets me when people say Shanny has never won anything w/o Elway, because the same is true for Elway never winning anything w/o Shanny.

Well, that's not really true is it? Let's be honest, all Elway hadn't won was the SB. He had been twice before under Reeves, but got pounded by NFC East teams. This is akin to saying Jim Kelly or Marv Levy never won anything.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby oneman56 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:55 am

I think i'm one of the few on this board that actually likes Kyle as our OC. Our offense has been the least of our worries since his arrival, IMO. There have been games where I think he didn't do great and calls in each game however I think regardless of who the OC is I'd have the same nitpicks. Since the talents of Alfred and RGIII have arrived this offense has consistently produced points. Personally, as long as the players enjoy working with him i'd like to see him stay.

As for Senior, I've been up and down on his hiring from the get go. He was an improvement over what we had and he's actually done a pretty good job in the draft since arriving, something I didn't think he was good at here in Denver toward the end of his tenure. His act grew tired in Denver and I hoped he would be rejuvenated (like Reid seems to be in KC) and maybe he will be but aside from the 7 game stretch last year it's undeniable he's been a coaching failure here, at least in terms of W and L's. My opinion on Haslett sticking around is that here in Denver one of the biggest complaints, post Elway, was the way Shanahan churned through defensive coordinators. A popular opinion was that the team couldn't build any chemistry and he wasn't giving the DC's there time to install and incorporate their players and schemes. I think this is why Haslett is still here, I believe Shanahan is trying to learn from that mistake and have some patience and stability on both sides of the ball. I applaud his patience, however i think 4 years is enough and Haslett has shown what he's (in)capable of. I believe Mike should get his 5th year, a full off-season with full cap flexibility however I also feel he HAS to make a D-coordinator change. I don't care if it's a 3/4 or 4/3 like some people seem to but we need a legit Coordinator and we need to get some Free agency help plus a strong draft. If next year we are no better off then we are now then i'll probably be on the fire Mike boat. For now though i say give him another year but next year is crucial. These last two years of the cap have really hurt his ability to build the team he probably wants so i give him some[i][/i] leeway there. The coaching staff decision are completely on him however and so far they haven't been too good.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:12 am

I think Mike and Bruce have done a pretty good job in remaking and rebuilding the franchise - we were a mess with no plan

I'm sure Mike will get another year with Bruce, and, given the past couple of years, I think these 2 will continue the good work they've done

I'm NOT a fan of Mike as the HC or Kyle as the OC or Haslett as the DC - it's not that they're bad at their jobs - they are all good …
I just think that there are better head coaches out there who will get more out of these players

I just don't see anything changing much while Mike is still here as HC and he SHOULD get another year working with Bruce Allen
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby hanburgerheel » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:31 am

I will openly admit that the offense is nowhere NEAR as bad as the defense. Kyle Shanahan is still a bad OC. He really is! He's fortunate to have decent players like Morris and Griffin to make it appear that he's even as good as he isn't! Having a father as HC helps, too! He might improve. But, you'll get more losses than wins because his dad can't implement a sound defense to help.

The defense is abhorrent! Now, you can insist that the DC is to blame, and he is. But, if you're a head coach and your DC is that bad and you don't step-in and save your WHOLE TEAM from further losses by taking over, then you are a poor HC. Shanahan is washed-up. He's a has-been. Either that, or he just cannot seem to get this particular group of players and coaches to make a better showing on the field. His RECORD speaks volumes. His record at Washington is horrible. If it hadn't been for that streak in late November and December last season, he'd be even more pitiful.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby oneman56 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:49 am

hanburgerheel wrote:I will openly admit that the offense is nowhere NEAR as bad as the defense. Kyle Shanahan is still a bad OC. He really is! He's fortunate to have decent players like Morris and Griffin to make it appear that he's even as good as he isn't! Having a father as HC helps, too! He might improve. But, you'll get more losses than wins because his dad can't implement a sound defense to help.

The defense is abhorrent! Now, you can insist that the DC is to blame, and he is. But, if you're a head coach and your DC is that bad and you don't step-in and save your WHOLE TEAM from further losses by taking over, then you are a poor HC. Shanahan is washed-up. He's a has-been. Either that, or he just cannot seem to get this particular group of players and coaches to make a better showing on the field. His RECORD speaks volumes. His record at Washington is horrible. If it hadn't been for that streak in late November and December last season, he'd be even more pitiful.



I agree with most of what you're saying, the exclusion being Kyle. I'm not trying to be rude when I ask this, just trying to keep the conversation going. What is it that makes you say Kyle is a bad OC? I'd honestly like to know, i'm by no means someone with coaching experience and haven't been involved with football at any level. I'm just a fan, when i look around the NFL I don't see many OC's out there that are really doing much bettter and the ones that are probably have more talent. I'm curiuos to hear from you, and others, why Kyle is a bad OC. Maybe i'm missing something....very possible.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby riggofan » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:24 pm

oneman56 wrote:
hanburgerheel wrote:I will openly admit that the offense is nowhere NEAR as bad as the defense. Kyle Shanahan is still a bad OC. He really is! He's fortunate to have decent players like Morris and Griffin to make it appear that he's even as good as he isn't! Having a father as HC helps, too! He might improve. But, you'll get more losses than wins because his dad can't implement a sound defense to help.

The defense is abhorrent! Now, you can insist that the DC is to blame, and he is. But, if you're a head coach and your DC is that bad and you don't step-in and save your WHOLE TEAM from further losses by taking over, then you are a poor HC. Shanahan is washed-up. He's a has-been. Either that, or he just cannot seem to get this particular group of players and coaches to make a better showing on the field. His RECORD speaks volumes. His record at Washington is horrible. If it hadn't been for that streak in late November and December last season, he'd be even more pitiful.



I agree with most of what you're saying, the exclusion being Kyle. I'm not trying to be rude when I ask this, just trying to keep the conversation going. What is it that makes you say Kyle is a bad OC? I'd honestly like to know, i'm by no means someone with coaching experience and haven't been involved with football at any level. I'm just a fan, when i look around the NFL I don't see many OC's out there that are really doing much bettter and the ones that are probably have more talent. I'm curiuos to hear from you, and others, why Kyle is a bad OC. Maybe i'm missing something....very possible.


Because he's not winning. :D
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby hanburgerheel » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:37 pm

riggofan wrote:
oneman56 wrote:
hanburgerheel wrote:I will openly admit that the offense is nowhere NEAR as bad as the defense. Kyle Shanahan is still a bad OC. He really is! He's fortunate to have decent players like Morris and Griffin to make it appear that he's even as good as he isn't! Having a father as HC helps, too! He might improve. But, you'll get more losses than wins because his dad can't implement a sound defense to help.

The defense is abhorrent! Now, you can insist that the DC is to blame, and he is. But, if you're a head coach and your DC is that bad and you don't step-in and save your WHOLE TEAM from further losses by taking over, then you are a poor HC. Shanahan is washed-up. He's a has-been. Either that, or he just cannot seem to get this particular group of players and coaches to make a better showing on the field. His RECORD speaks volumes. His record at Washington is horrible. If it hadn't been for that streak in late November and December last season, he'd be even more pitiful.



I agree with most of what you're saying, the exclusion being Kyle. I'm not trying to be rude when I ask this, just trying to keep the conversation going. What is it that makes you say Kyle is a bad OC? I'd honestly like to know, i'm by no means someone with coaching experience and haven't been involved with football at any level. I'm just a fan, when i look around the NFL I don't see many OC's out there that are really doing much bettter and the ones that are probably have more talent. I'm curiuos to hear from you, and others, why Kyle is a bad OC. Maybe i'm missing something....very possible.


Because he's not winning. :D



No sh*t, Sherlock. Why else are we all watching this sport? Because we think the team colors are really cool? They DON'T WIN! That's exactly right! Griffin has now come out and said that the Eagles knew what to expect. Your own QB calls you out as being responsible. This whole coaching staff blows. Some blow worse, but collectively they are a PROVEN failure!

What is an acceptable record this year? 6-10? 5-11? What? I get so sick of hearing how the salary cap impedes them. Bullsh*t! If you are an NFL coach and you have players getting paid what these guys get paid, you better damn well know how to get them to perform together and win some games consistently. I have never seen that in 4 years with this group, except for (as I said) that fluke month last season. And, they couldn't even MAINTAIN THAT streak! They have all the injured talent now and cannot maintain what they had without them.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Deadskins » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:24 pm

hanburgerheel wrote:If you are an NFL coach and you have players getting paid what these guys get paid, you better damn well know how to get them to perform together and win some games consistently.

Please! 2/3 of the coaches in the NFL would lose their jobs every year, if everyone thought that way. There are only a handful of franchises that enjoy sustained success for any period of time, and even their window closes after about five or six years. You can count on one hand the teams that keep it going for longer than that.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby StorminMormon86 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:33 pm

hanburgerheel wrote:No sh*t, Sherlock. Why else are we all watching this sport? Because we think the team colors are really cool? They DON'T WIN! That's exactly right! Griffin has now come out and said that the Eagles knew what to expect. Your own QB calls you out as being responsible. This whole coaching staff blows. Some blow worse, but collectively they are a PROVEN failure!

What is an acceptable record this year? 6-10? 5-11? What? I get so sick of hearing how the salary cap impedes them. Bullsh*t! If you are an NFL coach and you have players getting paid what these guys get paid, you better damn well know how to get them to perform together and win some games consistently. I have never seen that in 4 years with this group, except for (as I said) that fluke month last season. And, they couldn't even MAINTAIN THAT streak! They have all the injured talent now and cannot maintain what they had without them.

Take a deep breath, I for one agree about the coaching staff. I still think Kyle is an above average OC, however. That win streak last year is proof enough, IMO. Griffin is the one impeding the success on offense this year. He came back too early, IMO. And now even in week 11 he's still not able to read defenses and he's still sailing passes 5-10 yards over open receivers. Our offensive line has looked subpar for the majority of the season, but it's not like Griffin is getting a decent amount of time back there. Especially in yesterday's game. Does anyone else notice how far he drops back in the pocket? It's like 10 yards!

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby RayNAustin » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:25 pm

Everyone has an opinion, and is entitled to it. But I really don't see much logic in some of the cherry picking of points in the OP.

I also believe that at the present state of the team, trying to blame one side (defense) has any credibility at all. This team is underperforming across the board, and "underperforming" is being overly kind. Truth is, they are performing VERY POORLY ... offense, defense, special teams.

And they are poor in fundamental areas, from blocking to tackling, to passing and catching, to the poor decipline that shows in penalties. This ought to tell you that there is a major leadership issue. But for those who want to blame the players,b citing the fact that coaches don't block, or miss tackles, or commit holding, or throw balls up for grabs, I ask you ... who pickef those players? Who has said repeatedly that the talent was poor when he arrived, but is now WAY better, and deeper? The same guy who told us two years ago that "I'll stake my reputation on him", when asked if John Beck was a legitimate starting QB. That's where the buck stops being passed ... the man in charge.

It would be one thing if you could legitimately blame one or two elements, or players for what we are seeing .... but that is not the case. And frankly, Ibelieve too many people are allowing one miraculous 7 week stretch last year to mask the otherwise totally unacceptable results of the other 51 games, which work out to be no better, and actually worse than the results of Jim Zorn, who was working with less talent and no real authoity to change anything. The truth is, Zorn's first year began way better than anything we've seen from the Shanahans, only he was derailed by massive injuries.

This staff has allegedly improved the talent by leaps and bounds. And a sound argument can be made to support that. Is that not additional reason to indict the coaching? Good coaches are supposed to do more with less ... not less with more. There just is no escaping the rational and logical conclusion that the Mike & Kyle show has been hard to watch, in spite of the hype and expectations.

And let's not let short memories prevent logic from guiding conclusions. Who insisted on rebuilding a solid defense into a 34 when 1) we did not have the proper personnel for it and 2) doing so impacted the effort to revitalize the offense that was where we desperately needed to focus on, and should have been the priority?

Who traded for McNabb, then benched him because he could not make the offense work, only to witness the next two QBs fail the task too?

Last year was an entirely different scheme, made succesful by the legs of two rookies. But, doing so landed your franchise QB in the operating room. This year, we're back to a more conventional style offense, and we see more ineptitude than the first two years.

Without RG3 and alfred litterally carrying the offense on their shoulders last year, this team would have been what we see now ... bad, just like year 1 & 2

What does this mean for the ShanaClan? Hopefully, OUT, OUT, OUT.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:37 pm

I just do not see Dan Snyder pulling the trigger on this …

I am looking forward to life without the Shanahans but I think that Mike (and Kyle) are here next season

things could change very quickly here if Bruce and Mike bring in the 'right' people AND get this thing back on track next season
The Redskins need to change to improve - we need a better GM and we need to do a better job of who we bring in to coach and play here - players and coaches need to be held accountable when they do not do their jobs well

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