Refreshing...

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Refreshing...

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:09 am

I just wanted to express how refreshing it is to have Mike/Bruce at the helm. Yes, refreshing... We're years into the current regime and it's still a breath of fresh air. What we witnessed over the past few days is something foreign to us. Good drafting has been a constant with the new regime, I've personally gone into detail about how they overhauled the scouting dept. But what we saw this weekend couldn't have happened in years prior.

IMO, what we saw was a diff strategy by the Redkins brain-trust. When I look at our additions to the defense, I see value. I see guys that fell out of favor for one reason or another. BUT!!! Because of the foundation set by Shanahan, he can great players and coach them up to reach that 1st round potential. He can get Rambo, and have London and RGIII setting the tone for the team. Amerson, can be coached by a great secondary coach. Xavier Nixon, as others have pointed out has work ethic problems... Theres a good chance that it won't be an issue under a player like RGIII.

We can get players like that now, and not have them drag the team now. We can get them, and know that they wont' step foot on the field if they don't change. We have a locker room, that's breeding a winning mindset, accountability and consistency amongst their brotherhood.

It's exciting, it's different. I hope that this franchise continues with it's stability from the top down. From Snyder down, they deserve a ton of credit. As a fan, I appreciate the work they've done.
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Postby riggofan » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:18 am

+1.

I don't doubt that we're gambling on some of these riskier, red flag players because we have to. Some kid with no potential character problems who can't get on the field doesn't do us any good.

On the other hand, I think you're absolutely right that we can gamble on some of those guys because of the locker room. It really seems like we have a TEAM these days instead of just "this year's collection of free agents". There isn't room for these guys to come in and act up.

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Postby Deadskins » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:33 am

Agree 100%.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:21 am

I mostly agree but have a couple of counterpoints:

(1) The injured players we drafted are real risks — that's why they fell so low on the draft board. On the plus side, if they can't achieve top form, it's not like we used a 1st round pick only to watch them fail. But we shouldn't act like there isn't a very real possibility that the players will simply never "get there." Our current coaches, players, and team culture won't get in the way of their recovery, but it won't magically make things happen if the reality of the injury is worse than we hope. Even when everything looks good to go, a team that drafts a player is making a bet. Issues such as injuries or decreased production should not be ignored as risk factors — essentially, it means we're making a bet with worse odds. Having a good organization can help mitigate those risks but it doesn't make everything a wash.

(2) I actually diagree on the idea of "coaching up" players with a bad work ethic. There is some chance of redemption but the NFL is a league where you don't get many chances. The really talented players can get a second, third, or even fourth chance — though usually by that time they are no longer superstars but just average-to-above-average players. For success stories of reformed attitudes in superstars, see Ricky Williams and Pacman Jones. Haynesworth is the best example of someone who wouldn't and couldn't benefit even under the best leadership.

If a superstar talent with a poor work ethic has little chance of doing anything significant in the NFL, then a somewhat talented player with a poor work ethic has even less chance of succeeding. That's not to say they can't, but only that 8+ year-old habits are hard to break. Half-assing it got this guy through high school and a big-time college career; it's going to be extraordinarily difficult to "turn on" the right attitude and approach this late in the game. Contrast a lazy college player with RGIII, who has worked harder than almost anyone else since day one. The man has plenty of talent, but he would have gone nowhere without the work ethic he's chiseled into his psyche from youth.

The NFL will try even the most hardened, dedicated people. Those without a work ethic will typically crumble under the pressure.

That said, I certainly do hope Nixon has it in him to perform. I don't know anything about him and for all I know the rumors are untrue or only partly true. He'll get his chance, which is all we (or he) can ask, so I hope he siezes his opportunity. It will be very difficult, but it's not impossible.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:24 am

But those quibbles aside, I am right with you. Shanny and Allen are opening up possibilities that were not possible under Vinny. Players do NOT come to Washington anymore to get their big paycheck and ride out their career on cruise control. Draft picks do NOT come in, party, and fail to develop while collecting million-dollar paychecks for five years. We have hungry men who are fighting for their jobs and stick together when things get difficult during the season. This is completely refreshing and still feels new even though we are several years now into this regime. At this current trajectory, I hope Shanny gets a decade or more to lead this franchise.
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:30 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I mostly agree but have a couple of counterpoints:

(1) The injured players we drafted are real risks — that's why they fell so low on the draft board. On the plus side, if they can't achieve top form, it's not like we used a 1st round pick only to watch them fail. But we shouldn't act like there isn't a very real possibility that the players will simply never "get there." Our current coaches, players, and team culture won't get in the way of their recovery, but it won't magically make things happen if the reality of the injury is worse than we hope. Even when everything looks good to go, a team that drafts a player is making a bet. Issues such as injuries or decreased production should not be ignored as risk factors — essentially, it means we're making a bet with worse odds. Having a good organization can help mitigate those risks but it doesn't make everything a wash.[/quoted]

There is a real possibility. I don't disagree at all. The fact that they've such a foundation that we can now take some chances, is what I'm happy about. If/when these guys pan out, that's what will propel us into truly being a contender and consistently so.


(2) I actually diagree on the idea of "coaching up" players with a bad work ethic. There is some chance of redemption but the NFL is a league where you don't get many chances. The really talented players can get a second, third, or even fourth chance — though usually by that time they are no longer superstars but just average-to-above-average players. For success stories of reformed attitudes in superstars, see Ricky Williams and Pacman Jones. Haynesworth is the best example of someone who wouldn't and couldn't benefit even under the best leadership.


I may not have been clear. Work ethic isn't something you can coach up. Having a RGIII on your team can remedy things like that, having a great locker room and winning organization can turn a guy around. I think RGIII is contagious. His exuberance for the game, his mentality. I think last season showed it... I believe that's what Ray Lewis did for Baltimores locker room. McKinnie was notoriously overweight and inconsistent, the RAvens grabbed him and he was HUGE to their post-season turnaround when he was placed at LT.

I think "coaching up" comes into play with Amerson and his eyes. Fixating on the QB and getting over the mental hurdles are something good coaching can remedy.


Irn-Bru wrote:That said, I certainly do hope Nixon has it in him to perform. I don't know anything about him and for all I know the rumors are untrue or only partly true. He'll get his chance, which is all we (or he) can ask, so I hope he siezes his opportunity. It will be very difficult, but it's not impossible.


We definitely don't know. It's just my belief that we have the foundation/organization that can turn these players around. Before, we definitely didn't. Every one of them won't pan out, but I feel confident that it'll work out more often than not.

And you know what, if it doesn't. No big deal. Mike plays the best player, regardless of salary. And we're making smart moves in regards to contracts.

I don't think we really disagree, I just need to be more clear.
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Postby langleyparkjoe » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:45 am

Good post my brutha!
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Postby fetus » Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:52 am

100% agree with you Chris... I love what this team has become under Shanny and Bruce and look forward to many years of success and a couple of Superbowls!
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Postby SkinsJock » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:02 am

I'm not sure of the exact number of players that were drafted this year and I'm sure there will be some more former college players trying out for teams in the next few months ...

I do know that this franchise has a much better chance of identifying which of these 'new' players will be able to be a part of our roster MAINLY because of the FO & scouting we currently have

in years past we barely managed to help ourselves through the draft ... that has all changed here and we now can feel VERY confident that this roster will have decent depth

most NFL franchises will not do nearly as well in identifying and adding players who will be REAL contributors to their teams as the current Washington Redskins

we very likely will not keep all of these draft picks but the guys currently on the roster know they have to work VERY hard to keep their spots
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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:30 am

Honestly we won't know about this draft for at least 2-3 years. I think Bruce Allen has more to do with the positive players we have drafted. If anyone recalls one of the main reasons Mike was fired in Denver was because of his draft picks, now this isn't a knock either but let's make sure the Vinny Cerrato disease that infested Redskins Nation is completely gone before we give MORE CREDIT THAN WHAT IS ACTUALLY DUE!!! # JUSTSAYING....

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Re: Refreshing...

Postby HTTRRG3ALMO » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:31 am

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I just wanted to express how refreshing it is to have Mike/Bruce at the helm. Yes, refreshing... We're years into the current regime and it's still a breath of fresh air. What we witnessed over the past few days is something foreign to us. Good drafting has been a constant with the new regime, I've personally gone into detail about how they overhauled the scouting dept. But what we saw this weekend couldn't have happened in years prior.

IMO, what we saw was a diff strategy by the Redkins brain-trust. When I look at our additions to the defense, I see value. I see guys that fell out of favor for one reason or another. BUT!!! Because of the foundation set by Shanahan, he can great players and coach them up to reach that 1st round potential. He can get Rambo, and have London and RGIII setting the tone for the team. Amerson, can be coached by a great secondary coach. Xavier Nixon, as others have pointed out has work ethic problems... Theres a good chance that it won't be an issue under a player like RGIII.

We can get players like that now, and not have them drag the team now. We can get them, and know that they wont' step foot on the field if they don't change. We have a locker room, that's breeding a winning mindset, accountability and consistency amongst their brotherhood.

It's exciting, it's different. I hope that this franchise continues with it's stability from the top down. From Snyder down, they deserve a ton of credit. As a fan, I appreciate the work they've done.


We're a tightly wound team now. Just imagine what we're going to look like after the 2014 draft. We're already a scary team as we are and will do great this year. Very difficult schedule will give all our players a jump start in NFL experience.

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:39 am

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Honestly we won't know about this draft for at least 2-3 years.


You're missing the point...

This thread isn't as much about this draft as it is about the overall body of work of this regime. It's about how their previous successful drafts allowed them to strategically tackle this draft differently. It's about the evolution of the franchise and how it's progressing forward.


DaSkinz Baby wrote:I think Bruce Allen has more to do with the positive players we have drafted.


Then you don't truly understand the makeup of this regime. Bruce has very little to do with player acquisition. Bruce is a PR man, he's a GM by title. You give the man who isn't involved in the draft credit... And in the same breath take more credit away from Mike, when he is in fact the head honcho for player acquisition in Washington.

DaSkinz Baby wrote: If anyone recalls one of the main reasons Mike was fired in Denver was because of his draft picks, now this isn't a knock either but let's make sure the Vinny Cerrato disease that infested Redskins Nation is completely gone before we give MORE CREDIT THAN WHAT IS ACTUALLY DUE!!! # JUSTSAYING....


You're having trouble letting go of the past... Who cares what Mike did in Denver? Focus on what he's done here and maybe you'd understand.
You don't quite understand that Bruce Allen isn't your typical GM.
And you're mentioning Cerrato. Have you... Lemme rephrase that. You really need to educate yourself on the intricacies of this team, in CONTRAST to it's past. There's a lot that you need to kinda just sit back and be receptive to.
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Postby SkinsHead56 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:46 am

Testify: the skins had 21 of 22 starters return. There are 26 drafted players on this team. All of this while working under a 36 mill cap penalty that gives the team that much more lee way next year. Brilliant front office work nothing short of brilliant.
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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Mon Apr 29, 2013 10:48 am

SkinsHead56 wrote:Testify: the skins had 21 of 22 starters return. There are 26 drafted players on this team. All of this while working under a 36 mill cap penalty that gives the team that much more lee way next year. Brilliant front office work nothing short of brilliant.


Agreed WHOLEHEARTEDLY WELL SAID SkinsHead56 WELL SAID!!!

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Postby KazooSkinsFan » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:36 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I mostly agree but have a couple of counterpoints:

(1) The injured players we drafted are real risks — that's why they fell so low on the draft board. On the plus side, if they can't achieve top form, it's not like we used a 1st round pick only to watch them fail


What I'm thinking is of the several guys we drafted who fell for injuries and other reasons that maybe half work out. That would be a complete win over drafting guys who were slotted for later rounds because their skill is at that level.

I agree expecting them all to work out is unlikely, some are going to end up like Jamaal Brown and Malcolm Kelly and eventually we give it up. I'm pretty much there with Helu if he doesn't stay healthy in camp and through the season. It's time to give it up if that happens.
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