Fred Davis (resign him now)

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Postby skinsfan#33 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:56 pm

Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.

If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Postby HTTRRG3ALMO » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:59 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.

If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available.


I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.

As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.

After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis.

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 2047
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:36 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Postby emoses14 » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:25 pm

HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.

If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available.


I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.

As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.

After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis.


I don't understand this willingness to unload Davis. The guy is very good and very young and we'll get him on the cheap because I agree that his stats are not indicative of his ability, YET. The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. Davis' production prior to the Achilles (a freak, not injury prone, injury, by the way) was tops on the team. Hell he was 5th on the team in receiving and played less than half the games! He was 12th in TEs in 2011 with a 4 game suspension.

Speaking if which, didn't he only not play a full compliment of games last year because he was suspended? So he has played three straight full seasons 09, 10 and 11. After all I take the question "has he even played 2 full seasons to be some sort of shot at his durability. And in 08, his rookie year, he wasn't hurt, he was stupid and that's why he only played 11. So he's been hurt exactly once.
Last edited by emoses14 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
I know he got a pretty good zip on the ball. He has a quick release. . . once I seen a coupla' throws, I was just like 'Yeah, he's that dude.'"

-Santana Moss on Our QB

JSPB22
User avatar
Posts: 16165
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:03 am
Location: Location, LOCATION!

Postby Deadskins » Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:33 am

emoses14 wrote:The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around.

That's a very good thing, but not the best. The best thing is that he doesn't turn the ball over.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.


Hog Bowl IV Champion (2012)

Hail to the Redskins!

ch1
Posts: 3632
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:01 pm
Location: virginia beach

Postby crazyhorse1 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:57 am

emoses14 wrote:
HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.

If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available.


I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.

As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.

After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis.


I don't understand this willingness to unload Davis. The guy is very good and very young and we'll get him on the cheap because I agree that his stats are not indicative of his ability, YET. The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. Davis' production prior to the Achilles (a freak, not injury prone, injury, by the way) was tops on the team. Hell he was 5th on the team in receiving and played less than half the games! He was 12th in TEs in 2011 with a 4 game suspension.

Speaking if which, didn't he only not play a full compliment of games last year because he was suspended? So he has played three straight full seasons 09, 10 and 11. After all I take the question "has he even played 2 full seasons to be some sort of shot at his durability. And in 08, his rookie year, he wasn't hurt, he was stupid and that's why he only played 11. So he's been hurt exactly once.


Every year it seems that deficit hawks on this site become money conscious and want to unload our best talent, as if we could afford to lose any. Here's the fact. We have gaping holes and talent shortages at key positions, one of them being tight end (without Davis). We are not a shoo in even to repeat as division champs, in fact probably won't, unless we have a terrific off-season. Our DB's suck, more or less, and the offensive line can only be said to be strong at two positions. On defense, we can't rush the passer unless we blitz. We also need another productive WR to go with Garcon and have to pray Moss makes it through another season. Further, without RG3 posing a dual threat and better receivers, Morris' yardage will go down considerably. We are champs by a shoe string and some flukey wins which may not happen again. Getting rid of Davis is one of the most absurd things we can do. Akin to Republicans trying to make the economy grow by firing people from their jobs. Austerity does not produce Super Bowls.

FanFromAnnapolis
Posts: 11080
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:01 pm
Location: on the bandwagon

Postby Irn-Bru » Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:02 pm

emoses14 wrote:
HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.

If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available.


I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.

As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.

After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis.


I don't understand this willingness to unload Davis. The guy is very good and very young and we'll get him on the cheap because I agree that his stats are not indicative of his ability, YET. The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. Davis' production prior to the Achilles (a freak, not injury prone, injury, by the way) was tops on the team. Hell he was 5th on the team in receiving and played less than half the games! He was 12th in TEs in 2011 with a 4 game suspension.

Speaking if which, didn't he only not play a full compliment of games last year because he was suspended? So he has played three straight full seasons 09, 10 and 11. After all I take the question "has he even played 2 full seasons to be some sort of shot at his durability. And in 08, his rookie year, he wasn't hurt, he was stupid and that's why he only played 11. So he's been hurt exactly once.


Yep. Big difference between a pot-use suspension and Achilles heel tear and a guy who is, e.g., having chronic problems on the same knee. Davis has definitely proved he can produce and he will not have to sign an incentive-laden contract to get paid a decent amount. His suspension and injury will keep him from getting top-5 TE money, but the Redskins should not be low balling him either. He will be a key player on next year's team.
"Last year I thought we'd win it all. This year I know we will." - Rex Ryan, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Jets

"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

the 'mudge
Posts: 14642
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Postby Countertrey » Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:00 pm

crazyhorse1 wrote:
emoses14 wrote:
HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.

If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available.


I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.

As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.

After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis.


I don't understand this willingness to unload Davis. The guy is very good and very young and we'll get him on the cheap because I agree that his stats are not indicative of his ability, YET. The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. Davis' production prior to the Achilles (a freak, not injury prone, injury, by the way) was tops on the team. Hell he was 5th on the team in receiving and played less than half the games! He was 12th in TEs in 2011 with a 4 game suspension.

Speaking if which, didn't he only not play a full compliment of games last year because he was suspended? So he has played three straight full seasons 09, 10 and 11. After all I take the question "has he even played 2 full seasons to be some sort of shot at his durability. And in 08, his rookie year, he wasn't hurt, he was stupid and that's why he only played 11. So he's been hurt exactly once.


Every year it seems that deficit hawks on this site become money conscious and want to unload our best talent, as if we could afford to lose any. Here's the fact. We have gaping holes and talent shortages at key positions, one of them being tight end (without Davis). We are not a shoo in even to repeat as division champs, in fact probably won't, unless we have a terrific off-season. Our DB's suck, more or less, and the offensive line can only be said to be strong at two positions. On defense, we can't rush the passer unless we blitz. We also need another productive WR to go with Garcon and have to pray Moss makes it through another season. Further, without RG3 posing a dual threat and better receivers, Morris' yardage will go down considerably. We are champs by a shoe string and some flukey wins which may not happen again. Getting rid of Davis is one of the most absurd things we can do. Akin to Republicans trying to make the economy grow by firing people from their jobs. Austerity does not produce Super Bowls.


Your political delusions aside... you are dead on about the foolishness of those who don't see Davis for what he is... a reliable and dangerous weapon, who, teamed with Garcon and a healthy Morgan, will create an exceptionally dangerous set of receivers.
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Postby HTTRRG3ALMO » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:16 pm

emoses14 wrote:
HTTRRG3ALMO wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Has Davis played two full seasons in a row yet. Has he ever finished in the top ten a TE? I like Davis, but he is no where near elite. He is a good player, not even a very good player. He can run fast, but it's stiff in the hips and had a hard time shifting to a poorly thrown ball. He is a good number for a team that can't do better. I doubt he will draw a lot of interest on the market and should only be brought back at a well below top 5 TE salary level. He is a mid range player at his position and should be paid as such.

If someone wants to pay him anywhere close to elite level congratulate him and wish him well. There are plenty of players of his caliber available.


I agree with this. I mean the inability to play two full years in a row is a major red flag. I've gone back and forth about Davis but I believe this is where I stand from here on.

As another contributor said, I'd be ok with an incentive laden contract with a low pay based on his issues/inability to play a full season.

After that, see if we can find his replacement in the draft and if that replacement is better by far, cut Davis.


I don't understand this willingness to unload Davis. The guy is very good and very young and we'll get him on the cheap because I agree that his stats are not indicative of his ability, YET. The best thing about griffin is his ability not to lock in on just one receiver and to spread the ball around. Davis' production prior to the Achilles (a freak, not injury prone, injury, by the way) was tops on the team. @#!*% he was 5th on the team in receiving and played less than half the games! He was 12th in TEs in 2011 with a 4 game suspension.

Speaking if which, didn't he only not play a full compliment of games last year because he was suspended? So he has played three straight full seasons 09, 10 and 11. After all I take the question "has he even played 2 full seasons to be some sort of shot at his durability. And in 08, his rookie year, he wasn't hurt, he was stupid and that's why he only played 11. So he's been hurt exactly once.


If he's cheap, go for it. My concern is wasting money on him with our limited cap. If he isn't an issue there, that's worth the risk to me. If he's putting in a half decent hit, I'm not for it.

#33
Posts: 4084
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2004 8:44 am

Postby skinsfan#33 » Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:33 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:His suspension and injury will keep him from getting top-5 TE money, but the Redskins should not be low balling him either. He will be a key player on next year's team.


His not having top 5 talent will keep him from getting top 5 talent money. The injury (just as bad as what RG3 had) and the suspension will not help his cause, but the main reason will be the fact that he isn't a top 5 guy.

He isn't Cooley in his prime. The guy has never produced at any where near elite level for an entire year. He is simply a good player that can't get on the field because there was a better guy, or couldn't stay on the field because he was getting suspended or injured.

Bring him back If he can be had at or below market value, but don't pay 1 cent more. He simply won't have a large market. He is unreliable and nothing special. I'm sure a TE with his talent level can be had on the 4th or 5th round or on the second wave of free agency (you know a week or two after all the high price FA have signed and teams start signing bargains). I could name a couple dozen TEs that would give you better performance or at least comparable.

I would like to keep him but won't shed a tear if he goes.
"Dovie'andi se tovya sagain"
(It is time to roll the dice) Tai'shar Manetheren

"Duty is heavier than a Mountain, Death is lighter than a feather" Tai'shar Malkier

RIP James Oliver Rigney, Jr. 1948-2007

**LPJ**
Posts: 6385
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:12 am
Location: Langley Park, MD *Tick Tock*

Postby langleyparkjoe » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:30 am

Resign him IMO, let's see what he can do while 100% healthy with RG3 and Garcon out there. I don't think we'll get fair trade value for him because he's coming off that injury. I'm all for the youth movement and Davis (assuming he's healthy) is still young and with other young players I think we'll see an even better more explosive offense.

Imagine.. Garcon, Moss, Davis, Robinson, Morgan on a 5 WR set with RG3 at the controls

:shock:
Hog Bowl I Champion (2009)
Hog Bowl II Champion 2010- Cappster
Hog Bowl III Champion 2011- DarthMonk
Hog Bowl IV Champion 2012- Deadskins
Hog Bowl V Champion 2013- DarthMonk

DC Area, I support you.. Unconditionally
When I die, remember me as one loyal S.O.B.!

CKRGiii
Online
Posts: 4657
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: 505 New Mexico repn

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:25 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:Resign him IMO, let's see what he can do while 100% healthy with RG3 and Garcon out there. I don't think we'll get fair trade value for him because he's coming off that injury. I'm all for the youth movement and Davis (assuming he's healthy) is still young and with other young players I think we'll see an even better more explosive offense.

Imagine.. Garcon, Moss, Davis, Robinson, Morgan on a 5 WR set with RG3 at the controls

:shock:


Pretty much how I see it aswell.. era one is quick to forget the year he was having before injury... And the chemistry he had with RGiii. Week one was the only time we saw the O healthy. And, huh, they looked pretty damn good!
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

---
User avatar
Posts: 18570
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:55 pm
Location: AJT

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:36 am

The FO isn't dumb enough to just cast him away as some here have suggested. Basically by saying that we should only sign him "for cheap".

I think FFA has the right idea.
Fios - Arbiter of All Positive Knowledge

Kaz - "Was kinda obvious since we all know you're not a moron"

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Postby HTTRRG3ALMO » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:23 pm

I'd try to shop Davis to see what draft pick(s) teams would offer for him.

Three obvious problems though:
1. He's still injured
2. He has a chance of becoming a FA anyway
3. Previous suspensions

Wonder if there are any teams desperate enough in their TE depth that they would need Davis.

That said, the three main issues may very make my comment a waste of board space.

FanFromAnnapolis
Posts: 11080
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 6:01 pm
Location: on the bandwagon

Postby Irn-Bru » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:20 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:Bring him back If he can be had at or below market value, but don't pay 1 cent more.

I hope you realize that his market value, what teams will pay him for, is probably in the top 10-15 range, if not higher. That's why the Redskins had to use the franchise tag last year, to keep him from testing the market. Are you going to be upset if we sign him for close to his actual market value?

He simply won't have a large market. He is unreliable and nothing special. I'm sure a TE with his talent level can be had on the 4th or 5th round or on the second wave of free agency (you know a week or two after all the high price FA have signed and teams start signing bargains). I could name a couple dozen TEs that would give you better performance or at least comparable.

This is an exagerration at best. You could replace Davis with a 5th round pick? You can name 25 tight ends that could do better?

I guess I should take these claims with a grain of salt. Weren't you saying that Cooley was going to be a top 5 TE before we cut him this year, and then claimed he could start on most NFL teams after that? It's pretty clear you are pretty far afield from what the stats and personnel pros think at this point.
"Last year I thought we'd win it all. This year I know we will." - Rex Ryan, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Jets

"Dream team." - Vince Young, on what would become the 8-8 2011 Eagles

---
User avatar
Posts: 18570
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 12:55 pm
Location: AJT

Postby Chris Luva Luva » Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:55 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I guess I should take these claims with a grain of salt


Exactly ONE grain. No more than that.
Fios - Arbiter of All Positive Knowledge

Kaz - "Was kinda obvious since we all know you're not a moron"

Return to Hog Wash - Washington Redskins Football