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Postby Deadskins » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:12 am

Irn-Bru wrote:
Silnwest wrote:-Is RG3 really that amazingly accurate that he doesn't ever throw picks, or has he been getting some lucky bounces?

I would say that he has so few picks because (a) he reads defenses very well, (b) he's accurate, (c) he doesn't force it, and (d) he hasn't thrown nearly as much downfield as other QBs.

(a), (b), and (c) are to Griffin's credit, and (d) comes from coaching/playcalling and the strength of his running ability. Surely if Griffin was playing the same kind of gameplan that Indy gives to Luck, he'd have many more picks.

I'd have to agree with you on a, b, and c, but take exception to d. He leads the league in YPR, so he must be throwing the ball downfield (though we are getting more YAC this year.) He has less attempts than other QBs because usually we are rocking the running game and just don't need to pass as much as other teams. Running the ball also helps us control the clock, and keep the D off the field. I think if he had as many attempts as Luck, his completion % would be about the same, as would his throws/INT ratio.
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Postby The Hogster » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:36 am

Seahawks fan guy wrote:

I have a couple questions if you guys don't mind.

-Do you think Alfred Morris is more a product of his offensive line and running qb, or is he legitimately one of the best backs in the league?

-Is RG3 really that amazingly accurate that he doesn't ever throw picks, or has he been getting some lucky bounces?

-Who gets the pressure on the d-line? Do you collapse the pocket with the lineman, or do most of your sacks and pressures come from the blitz?



I don't think Alfred Morris is a product of his line or RGIII. Alfred Morris is a unique talent. He's got some Terrell Davis type ability. He's not an explosive back who will go 70 yards and outrun everyone. But, he compensates with a special combination of power, vision, and patience. He runs people over and doesn't go down on first contact. He sees the correct hole almost all the time and hits it without hesitation. And, he allows the plays to develop like an experienced vet.

The zone read concept helps as it freezes the defensive end most times, but you don't rack up 1600+ yards without being special.

As for pressure, this is an attacking defense that blitzes to apply pressure.

With that said, I doubt this game is close. That's not to discredit the Seahawks. But, I think the Redskins match up well against them. The zone scheme works best against faster defenders. Once you over pursue, the cutback lanes are huge. Alfred will expose that early and often.

The zone read scheme also takes advantage of speedy & greedy defenses. Your players will be going 100 MPH in the wrong direction. Good luck (i) telling who has the ball on the zone read, and (ii) catching anyone once you figure it out. And, just when you do think you've got a bead on it, here comes the intermediate slants over the middle exposing the LBs who thought a run was coming. Take that away, and there's the quick screen which Garcon and Moss can take the distance.

Take that away, and Alfred eats you up. Commit to him, and RGIII is gone around the edge. (Even with a brace, he's faster than most front 7 guys.


I also don't think you can under estimate the value of your home field advantage. You may not pipe in sound. But, the design of your stadium has been known to amplify it. Combine that with jet lag & the fact that you're way in Seattle, and you've got a real advantage. You're 8-0 there. And, 3-5 on the road. That's not by accident. You have to come here to DC where nobody cares about the Seahawks. I like our chances.

My prediction is 31-13 Skins. Our offense can and will score on your defense. Your corners are tall and rangy, which doesn't really matter with the type of offense we run. We don't throw jump balls.
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Postby Redskin in Canada » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:48 am

Silnwest wrote:I have a couple questions if you guys don't mind.

-Do you think Alfred Morris is more a product of his offensive line and running qb, or is he legitimately one of the best backs in the league?

-Is RG3 really that amazingly accurate that he doesn't ever throw picks, or has he been getting some lucky bounces?

-Who gets the pressure on the d-line? Do you collapse the pocket with the lineman, or do most of your sacks and pressures come from the blitz?


1. Alfred Morris is a great RB in the best system for him. He is fast and strong. He is a one-cut RB. Different in system and style than your own RB but very similar in productivity. Morris and Lynch are only 2nd and 3rd behind the great Adrian Peterson.

2. RGIII is a very accurate passer. You do not go 16 games in this league without showing what you are made of. Some of his INTs have been deflections and bounces. Again, your own QB is not bad in this regard either. But RGIII has been slightly better.

3. Our D lacks some key players due to injuries. One of our starting OL and one OLB are on injured reserve. They do a lot of pass rushing. So, our D has relied more on disguised and not so disguised blitzes. We have a zero coverage formation ... :lol: I suspect that your coaches have seen it.

In the end, both teams are extremely similar in several aspects and the advantages of one seem to balance with disadvantages in another area. I was never a fan of Pete Carroll in his previous posts in the NFL. But I have to admit that he has done a great job in Seattle. The Front Offices are doing great jobs on both teams.

Here's hoping to a great game and no injuries.

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Postby Silnwest » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:53 am

The Hogster wrote:Seahawks fan guy wrote:

I have a couple questions if you guys don't mind.

-Do you think Alfred Morris is more a product of his offensive line and running qb, or is he legitimately one of the best backs in the league?

-Is RG3 really that amazingly accurate that he doesn't ever throw picks, or has he been getting some lucky bounces?

-Who gets the pressure on the d-line? Do you collapse the pocket with the lineman, or do most of your sacks and pressures come from the blitz?



I don't think Alfred Morris is a product of his line or RGIII. Alfred Morris is a unique talent. He's got some Terrell Davis type ability. He's not an explosive back who will go 70 yards and outrun everyone. But, he compensates with a special combination of power, vision, and patience. He runs people over and doesn't go down on first contact. He sees the correct hole almost all the time and hits it without hesitation. And, he allows the plays to develop like an experienced vet.

The zone read concept helps as it freezes the defensive end most times, but you don't rack up 1600+ yards without being special.

As for pressure, this is an attacking defense that blitzes to apply pressure.

With that said, I doubt this game is close. That's not to discredit the Seahawks. But, I think the Redskins match up well against them. The zone scheme works best against faster defenders. Once you over pursue, the cutback lanes are huge. Alfred will expose that early and often.

The zone read scheme also takes advantage of speedy & greedy defenses. Your players will be going 100 MPH in the wrong direction. Good luck (i) telling who has the ball on the zone read, and (ii) catching anyone once you figure it out. And, just when you do think you've got a bead on it, here comes the intermediate slants over the middle exposing the LBs who thought a run was coming. Take that away, and there's the quick screen which Garcon and Moss can take the distance.

Take that away, and Alfred eats you up. Commit to him, and RGIII is gone around the edge. (Even with a brace, he's faster than most front 7 guys.


I also don't think you can under estimate the value of your home field advantage. You may not pipe in sound. But, the design of your stadium has been known to amplify it. Combine that with jet lag & the fact that you're way in Seattle, and you've got a real advantage. You're 8-0 there. And, 3-5 on the road. That's not by accident. You have to come here to DC where nobody cares about the Seahawks. I like our chances.

My prediction is 31-13 Skins. Our offense can and will score on your defense. Your corners are tall and rangy, which doesn't really matter with the type of offense we run. We don't throw jump balls.


Pete Carroll is a defensive minded coach, and runs a scheme that is different than anyone else in the NFL. Our starting cornerbacks are 6'4 6'3 and one was a 5th round draft choice while the other was a cfl player for several years before making it with the Hawks. The best way I can describe the way our cbs play is like a cb/safety hybrid. Our corners aren't high draft picks because they don't need the elite speed that usually comes with being a 1st round pick at corner back. They are rangy, and can disrupt you at the line and then drop into zone while the safeties get into proper position, with Earl Thomas being the most important player on our defense. His ability to seriously cover the whole field allows our bigger corners to intimidate the recievers, and focus on giving hard hits.

They press you at the line, and usually play zone after that, depending on what the offense is doing. It disrupts the receivers routes, and forces the quarterback to make good throws without much YAC because there is a guy waiting to tackle, or break on the ball to intercept it or bat it away. It's pretty much the ultimate bend but don't break defense. You won't get a big play from us, but you can have dinks and dunks all day long. Even if you get into the end zone, the amazing speed in our linebackers, and the excellent length of our cornerbacks make it extremely difficult to pass for a touchdown with a small amount of space.

Now as to the zone read, we have been running that at times on offense for over half of the season. Pete Carroll studied the way you used RG3 and started incorporating that into how we use RW. The players who helped Wilson learn those concepts? (Wilson never ran the zone-read in college like RG3 did) Our three starting linebackers.

Every linebacker is a rookie or 2nd year player who often played half or more of their games in college against various option, zone-read, or pistol offenses. They are extremely quick, and were learning how to defend zone read in college years ago. They have only gotten better since then while practicing against Russell Wilson.

Russell isn't as fast as RG3, isn't as big, and doesn't have as strong of an arm. However he is a better runner. What I mean is that he can pick his way through a defense and get down before someone gets a big hit on him. (which has a side effect of frustrating defenses) He also has excellent vision when running, and uses his scrambling to set up his passing. He just plain doesn't play like a rookie. He goes through his whole progression. There are a lot of starting QB's in this league who still can't do that with all the chaos going on in an NFL game.

Our defensive line scheme is different from any other in the NFL as well. We have 4 up fron that sub out based on the situation. One of our DE's is 300+ lb red bryant, who tears it up against the run. The other is Chris Clemons who you guys know, and has had 11+ sacks in his 3 seasons here. Then our D-line is huge, and we have a situational pass rusher Bruce Irvin who subs in on certain passing downs. Red Bryant won't bite on the zone-read thing, because that isn't his job in this defense. It's our linebackers that the zone-read will have to fool in order for you to have success. That won't be terribly easy.

I'm saying all this not because this will be an easy game for the Hawks, but because we will not be getting blown out. It just isn't the way this team is built. 31-13? If you guys can beat us by more than 10 I will agree to any bet you'd like. You guys can win, your a talented team. However the Seahawks are a more complete team: We are number 1 in total DVOA, while the redskins are number 9. Our offense is ranked #4, our defense is #4, and our special teams is #3. (not sure if you guys are fans of football outsiders, I've been going by their rankings for a couple years)

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Postby Silnwest » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:58 am

*double post :oops:

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Postby HEROHAMO » Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:08 am

Seattle has an excellent defense.

However they have never faced an offense like this one. The threat of RG3 running will keep the linebackers honest. Just an example of one such play that is a nightmare to defend is the bootleg out of the pistol. RG3 bootlegs to to either side, fakes a handoff freezing the linebackers and possibly the corners if they are in cover 2. Now that leaves the secondary one on one with the fastest receiver you guys have seen in Garcon who is faster then RG3. Cam Chanceleor is very good but he is not fast enough to keep up with Garcon.

Santana Moss is small fast and quick. He may be able to have a good game.

Aldrick Robinson is another very fast small receiver who can get deep.

I have a feeling Paulsen our big strong TE will have a big game.

As far as Wilson goes. I said it before he is a poor mans RG3. He still has to prove he can win the big one. At Wisconsin he was very good just could never win the biggest games of his career. We will see.

Lynch is a beast nothing more to say there. Our defense is very good against the run.
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Postby Irn-Bru » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:33 am

Deadskins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:
Silnwest wrote:-Is RG3 really that amazingly accurate that he doesn't ever throw picks, or has he been getting some lucky bounces?

I would say that he has so few picks because (a) he reads defenses very well, (b) he's accurate, (c) he doesn't force it, and (d) he hasn't thrown nearly as much downfield as other QBs.

(a), (b), and (c) are to Griffin's credit, and (d) comes from coaching/playcalling and the strength of his running ability. Surely if Griffin was playing the same kind of gameplan that Indy gives to Luck, he'd have many more picks.

I'd have to agree with you on a, b, and c, but take exception to d. He leads the league in YPR, so he must be throwing the ball downfield (though we are getting more YAC this year.) He has less attempts than other QBs because usually we are rocking the running game and just don't need to pass as much as other teams. Running the ball also helps us control the clock, and keep the D off the field. I think if he had as many attempts as Luck, his completion % would be about the same, as would his throws/INT ratio.


Yes, I was mostly talking about the number of his attempts downfield. I do think if he was taking more shots, we'd see proportionately more interceptions. Hard to think he'd be able to keep the same ratio, but who knows.
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Postby Deadskins » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:34 am

Irn-Bru wrote:I do think if he was taking more shots, we'd see proportionately more interceptions. Hard to think he'd be able to keep the same ratio, but who knows.

Aren't those things the same? How are you making the case for them being different?
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:48 am

You might see more picks, but you would also see more TDs. One reason RG3's TD number was modest is because he doesn't takes chances that often. If he throws down field the guy is almost always open or 1 on 1 w/o safety help. He could have thrown deep more often and his INT numbers probably would have gone up, but of course his TD numbers would have gone up some too!

The fact is, he doesn't need to take chances with the ball. So his TD and INT #s are lower because of that.

Dallas played him tough last week. They said, "you beat throwing the ball last time, but not this time!" They concentrated on eliminating the big play in the passing game and dared us to beat them running the ball. Their defense played well enough to win. Mr Romocember did what he does best. He took chances with the ball and it but cost him on three plays.

The pick that Jackson had was an amazing play that he played perfectly. Tony saw him and tried to loft the ball over his head. If he had completed that it would have been a HUGE play. Romo took a chance and it burnt him, because he didn't expect a converted DE to be able to make that athletic a play and tok a little too much off of the ball. Good decision, bad pass.

My point is, Robert doesn't throw that pass. He eats it or scrambles. He doesn't take the chance. If Tony puts a little more air under that pass it is a 40-50 completion (if not a TD), but he didn't and it was a pick. Griffin is more cautious with the ball. He will eventually start taking more risk as he gains more experience, but he will never chuck the ball around willy nilly like Romo or Favre.

If the CHawks play us like the Cowboys did, they probably win. I don't think they will. I think they will try to stop the run and RG3 will have a HUGE day. If they try to take away the run, THEY WILL LOSE! If they try to play situational ball and guess, they will most likely lose! If they drop back and cover, take Robert's arm out of the game and just let the ground game go for 2 or 300 yards, they have a much better chance of winning.

In a nut shell they have to decide if they want to stop the pass or the run. The can't stop the run; they just can't (no one can against us), so they might as well shut down the passing game. Try to do both, they lose. Try to stop the run, they lose. Commit to eliminating the pass and they have a good shot of winning.

This is all assuming our D can force 4 or 5 punts and crate a turn over or two. If they let the CHawks score too much in the first half, we will shut down the running game, then all bets are off.
Last edited by skinsfan#33 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby skinsfan#33 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:16 am

Deadskins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I do think if he was taking more shots, we'd see proportionately more interceptions. Hard to think he'd be able to keep the same ratio, but who knows.

Aren't those things the same? How are you making the case for them being different?

Maybe, maybe not. They could be different, depends on the base.
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Postby Deadskins » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:34 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
Irn-Bru wrote:I do think if he was taking more shots, we'd see proportionately more interceptions. Hard to think he'd be able to keep the same ratio, but who knows.

Aren't those things the same? How are you making the case for them being different?

Maybe, maybe not. They could be different, depends on the base.

Huh? A ratio is a proportion. It is one number compared proportionately to another number. As Opie Taylor said, "Poor Horatio, only half a boy."
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Postby The Hogster » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:45 am

Silnwest wrote:


Now as to the zone read, we have been running that at times on offense for over half of the season. Pete Carroll studied the way you used RG3 and started incorporating that into how we use RW. The players who helped Wilson learn those concepts? (Wilson never ran the zone-read in college like RG3 did) Our three starting linebackers.

Every linebacker is a rookie or 2nd year player who often played half or more of their games in college against various option, zone-read, or pistol offenses. They are extremely quick, and were learning how to defend zone read in college years ago. They have only gotten better since then while practicing against Russell Wilson.

Russell isn't as fast as RG3, isn't as big, and doesn't have as strong of an arm. However he is a better runner. What I mean is that he can pick his way through a defense and get down before someone gets a big hit on him. (which has a side effect of frustrating defenses) He also has excellent vision when running, and uses his scrambling to set up his passing. He just plain doesn't play like a rookie.


No disrespect to Seattle. But, I don't think the fans are looking at this team realistically. Let's be clear. The Seahawks are a "good" team. That's really it. The defense is very good. However, the love affair that you seem to have with them is much more homerism than realism.

It's all about matchups. Your corners are tall. Yes. That doesn't matter against the type of offense we run. The Redskins beat you with misdirection, play action, and a collection of fast, and powerful receivers who live between the linebackers and safeties.

You seem to think that the relative inexperience of your linebackers is a benefit for you. While, we see that as an opportunity to exploit. When RGIII sticks the ball in Morris' gut, and our offensive line fires off in a zone stretch run fashion. Linebackers invariably come downhill to stop the run.

The problem is, RGIII is very adept at the play fake, and when he reads those LBs, he can pull the ball back and rip off an accurate bullet to a crossing Garcon, Moss, or Hankerson. It doesn't matter how big or quick your defenders are when they are out of position. The only way you'll be in position is if your guys guess right. And, nobody can guess right every play.

To be honest, the only matchup that goes in your favor is Special Teams. You have one of the best KO returners in the league. And, we have a kicker who will kick him several returnable balls. With that said, I expect our team to defy the odds and beat you handily.

The Seahawks are not nearly the same team on the road. Not only will you be on the road, you're coming across the entire country to play a game in DC where there are probably 0 Seahawks fans.

I simply don't think your team matches up well against ours. That is why I believe we beat you by this type of margin. Actually, I think the score is in the range of something like 24-13 in the 4th and we score a late TD after demoralizing you with the run.
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Postby SkinsJock » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:47 am

G'day Silnwest and welcome to the site

I'm looking forward to a close game here - I doubt that either defense let's this get away

I also feel it's going to be close at the end but look at it this way ...

If the Redskins are in front RG3 will find a way to keep our defense off the field and if we're behind he will find a way to win :lol:


I'm looking for another close, heart wrenching finish - that's really the way we like to win the big games :lol:
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Postby The Hogster » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:01 pm

I appreciate a SEA fan coming here to talk football. But--unlike some posters here^^--I am not here to throw roses at the feet of their fans.

I call this one like I see it. Seattle is over confident--not only here--but on other sites--and I believe that comes from the way that RGIII looked to them on Sunday night.

All other fans know is that RGIII looked one way against the Cowboys on Thanksgiving, he got hurt, and now he looks gimpy.

That's only part of the story. The Cowboys were taking away the pass after getting torched in the last meeting. So, we relied heavily on the run. The fact that should scare other teams is that the Skins can beat you in many different ways.

I think the matchups favor the Skins. The Skins would have more trouble with a team like San Franciso that has a bigger more physical defense. Why?

Because in the zone read scheme, you're relying on your interior defenders to be able to stop the run. And, you need an athletic freak at Defensive End.

Aldon Smith is probably the only guy who could come close to being athletic enough to try and contain RGIII on plays where he keeps the ball. (He still can't keep up with him, but he's the kind of player that teams need to defend it).

You also need physical guys in the inside to stop the run because they are being left 1 man down.

Seattle is good but their strengths play right into our strengths. They are fast defenders whose over pursuit will leave them gashed.

31-13 31-17 at best.


BTW - RGIII said he might play without the brace this weekend which he says is the cause for his limp.
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Postby Quackjack » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:09 pm

The Redskins momentum is Super Bowl caliber. The Hawks need to prepare well if they want to survive.
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