If cousins starts vs browns: We will lose

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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:08 pm

RG3 is NOT going to be a player that we have to be concerned about like the PFW article is intimating

We all know that we will need a good quality back up QB but we also have other areas of concern - this FO is NOT letting Kirk go UNLESS we find a franchise that really wants him ...

and

We did NOT get Kirk to be THE back up QB - he was too good a value is WHY we made the pick :lol:


too many here are drinking the cool aid and not recognizing the reality of what is actually happening

we are very fortunate to be in the position we're in ...
BUT ... we STILL have many areas of concern that we need to address

Kirk is a very good QB and deserves a chance - IF we don't get what he's worth this offseason he's still going to be here ...



another great decision by this FO :wink:
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

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Postby riggofan » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:26 pm

I sort of agree with what you're saying, SJ - at least as far as a draft pick goes. If a team were to offer us a first rounder for Cousins, I have to admit we would probably have to take that deal. (I still kind of doubt anybody is giving us a first rounder based on KC's body of work to date. See: Flynn, Matt. Kolb, Kevin.)

I'm not sure what you're saying though that RGIII is not going to be a player we have to worry about. He's already been knocked out of two games this season and missed another. If we didn't have Cousins here, that would have been Rex under center last weekend.

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Postby Deadskins » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:21 pm

The best approach is to keep Cousins for four years, wish him well when he leaves as a free agent, and then have a new plan for 2016 and beyond.

No, the best approach would be to keep him three years, then trade him for value before he becomes a FA. :roll:
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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:37 pm

OK - I hear you guys and I understand where your concerns are ...

I feel that RG3 and Kyle will figure out how to both be really effective and also take less chances with the chances of anything happening

This offense is not a QB running type offense and while anyone can get hurt at any time, I think RG3 and Kyle understand that the most important thing for this franchise is to have RG3 playing QB

any player at any time can get hurt playing the game - I think Kyle and RG3 recognize that they can be very effective without CONSTANTLY putting RG3 in situations where he could get hurt - we're going to see more and more from RG3 but not to the extent that it puts him in harms way any more than is needed to be a really good and dangerous QB

I'm looking forward to it
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:42 pm

Deadskins wrote:
The best approach is to keep Cousins for four years, wish him well when he leaves as a free agent, and then have a new plan for 2016 and beyond.

No, the best approach would be to keep him three years, then trade him for value before he becomes a FA.


MAYBE - what if another franchise wants to make a stupid offer for him in the next year or 2?

let's see how things go - we're in the drivers seat and this kid is worth a lot more than we gave ...

how sweet it is and how lucky are we to have this FO :twisted:
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

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Postby Deadskins » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:46 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
The best approach is to keep Cousins for four years, wish him well when he leaves as a free agent, and then have a new plan for 2016 and beyond.

No, the best approach would be to keep him three years, then trade him for value before he becomes a FA.


MAYBE - what if another franchise wants to make a stupid offer for him in the next year or 2?

Then you take the deal. If KC, JAX, the Cards, or Oakland want's to give up the first overall pick, then you ask "where do I sign?"
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Postby langleyparkjoe » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:32 am

Deadskins wrote:Then you take the deal. If KC, JAX, the Cards, or Oakland want's to give up the first overall pick, then you ask "where do I sign?"


Won't get a peep outta me in that scenario.. see ya Cousins! :lol:
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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:10 am

let me add - I'm with you guys in that Kirk is looking like he gives us a really good back up QB and that's great ...

all I'm pointing to is that we have a FO that fully understands that and will ONLY make a deal for Kirk that clearly is worth losing that security


can you believe that from the last draft we got RG3, Alfred Morris and Kirk Cousins - I mean, how GREAT is this looking for our franchise

Mike & Bruce made some very bad moves early but recent additions have been GREAT

PLUS Pierre Garcon .... :lol:
We are very fortunate to have Kirk Cousins but Griffin has a huge upside IMO

Robert needs to continue to get better and to do that he needs time on the field - hopefully sooner than later

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Postby Hooligan » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:33 am

I figured Cousins would manage the game and squeak out a win. Not that he'd respond to them daring him to pass by... killing them with the pass.

To me, it showed two things:

1. He's a starting QB. Strong arm, accurate, poise, good play fakes, mostly good decisions. He's a backup for us that will win games, and we need him if RG3 is going to take downfield hits.

2. We probably DON'T need Kirk that badly, because the team just showed it can run a more traditional offense at a pretty high level. If this is what the team is transitioning to with RG3, then a home-run hitter at backup isn't as big of a necessity, as RG3 wouldn't be at risk of missing that much time.

Is there a better QB on the market right now than Cousins?
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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:39 am

Hooligan wrote:1. He's a starting QB. Strong arm, accurate, poise, good play fakes, mostly good decisions.


IMO, he's also benefiting from being on a hot team right now. A team that has solidified. We also must give credit to the coaching and play calling. It's no coincidence that both he and RG have succeeded here.


Hooligan wrote: He's a backup for us that will win games, and we need him if RG3 is going to take downfield hits.


I agree that we need to keep him around buttttt, for the right price....


Hooligan wrote:2. We probably DON'T need Kirk that badly, because the team just showed it can run a more traditional offense at a pretty high level.


Let's not get too ahead of ourselves, we need everyone we can get. 5 wins doesn't mean we've arrived, yet. I don't think it should be shocking that they can run a "traditional" offense. All they did was revert back to Mike's old offense. RGIII had something custom tailored for him, we just went back to what a hybrid of what Rex and RGIII ran.


Hooligan wrote: If this is what the team is transitioning to with RG3, then a home-run hitter at backup isn't as big of a necessity, as RG3 wouldn't be at risk of missing that much time.

Is there a better QB on the market right now than Cousins?


QB's get destroyed in the pocket all the time... The risk is lower but not by much IMO, especially depending on who's blocking.
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Postby Deadskins » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:36 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:QB's get destroyed in the pocket all the time... The risk is lower but not by much IMO, especially depending on who's blocking.

Actually, I think the risk is greater in the pocket. At least on the run, you can mitigate the damage by sliding or going OOB. In the pocket, the hits can come blindside, and there are all kinds of bodies flying everywhere to roll up on you.
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Postby markshark84 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:10 pm

Deadskins wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:QB's get destroyed in the pocket all the time... The risk is lower but not by much IMO, especially depending on who's blocking.

Actually, I think the risk is greater in the pocket. At least on the run, you can mitigate the damage by sliding or going OOB. In the pocket, the hits can come blindside, and there are all kinds of bodies flying everywhere to roll up on you.


I tend to agree but RGIII has gotten hurt twice in the process of sliding too late. I think he learned a ton from the first hit, but the BAL play was in an effort to pick up the first down. He could have slide much earlier (and would have) but, didn't in order to get as much yardage as he could.. All he cared about was getting to the marker. It's sort of a "protect him from himself (and his competitve nature) type deal. Those types of plays happen and those types of situations can't be prevented other than by just not having a mobile QB. That is my greatest concern; more so than either staying in the pocket or rolling out -- I just worry that RGIII will be in a situation where he needs the yards and has to take that hit in order to get them.

I think that head injuries are clearly more widespread from the pocket since most hits come from defenders during their throw -- and the QB lands on his back (causing the back of his helmet to slam to the turf) while his arms are tied up by the defender. I don' think that is a concern with RGIII.

The one GREAT thing from last week was that teams may no longer look at RGIII as our entire team. I believe that a good deal of opponents wanted to "knock" RGIII out of the game because they thought our offense couldn't execute without him. Now that KC has come in and performed well, perhaps the RGIII head-hunting won't be as commonplace.
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Postby Hooligan » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:31 pm

markshark84 wrote:
The one GREAT thing from last week was that teams may no longer look at RGIII as our entire team. I believe that a good deal of opponents wanted to "knock" RGIII out of the game because they thought our offense couldn't execute without him. Now that KC has come in and performed well, perhaps the RGIII head-hunting won't be as commonplace.


Good point, and hopefully we'll hear less "RG3 is your only offense" from other fans.
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Postby UK Skins Fan » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:26 am

I'm a bit late coming back to this thread.......did we lose?
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Postby riggofan » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:04 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Then you take the deal. If KC, JAX, the Cards, or Oakland want's to give up the first overall pick, then you ask "where do I sign?"


Won't get a peep outta me in that scenario.. see ya Cousins! :lol:


Yeah. And I am on the "keep Cousins" wagon, but I agree with that. If somebody comes up with a stupid offer like that then you kind of have to take it.

You have to look at those teams though and wonder how likely it is that they would be or even can afford to be that aggressive. Didn't Arizona and Oakland give up picks recently for Kolb and Palmer? Didn't Jax just spend a first rounder on Gabbert? KC isn't that far behind. What did they spend to get Cassel?

Its probably a little bit pie-in-the-sky to think we're getting any crazy offers for KC1 these teams.

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