Time for this Shanahan experiment to be ended.

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Postby skinsfan#33 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:13 am

Kilmer72 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
por-tiz2skins wrote:
-Orakpo RE in college and Phillip Daniels said he is too.

-Kerrigan LE in college

-Barry Cofield was a 4-3 DT his whole career and is too small for it at NT

-London 4-3 MLB his whole career

-Lorenzo Alexander DE/DT in 4-3 with us

-Chris Wilson 4-3 DE

The whole secondary was in the 4-3 too

-Kendric 4-3 DT

-ROb Jackson 4-3 DE

-Jenkins 4-3 DT in college

You have "in college" a lot describing some of the players. That is all good if we are going to start playing SEC teams, but we play on the NFL.

Orakpo and Kerrigan were only drafted in the first round with the intent to play OLB in a 3-4 system. If they weren't drafted by a 3-4 team they wouldn't have gone in the first round. They are "tweeners" that are too small to play DE in the NFL and too big to play SAM or Will, they DON'T FIT A 4-3 system but are perfect for OLB in a 3-4 system.

Since they are our two best players on defense and they don't fit a 4-3 we can't afford to switch to back to a 3-4 unless we phan on trading those two players to a 3-4 team.

The rest of the players could probably play rolls in a 4-3 but players like Rob Jackson would have to transition to SAM or just 3rd down pass rusher.

Besides our base defense is a 3-4, but we play 4-3, 2-5- and 5-2 from time to time. Orakpo and Kerrigan could be used as 3rd down pass rushers, but that would mean taking them off the field on 1st and 2nd down or risk getting them worn out, but if you really knew enough about football you would already know that.


Brian was drafted as a defensive end for the Redskins and made probowl alternate in his first year. Andre Carter was a tweener also. I know Mike isn't going to convert. These line backers as in Kerrigan and Orakpo aren't all that good at covering and in a 3 point stance could do some damage. It wont happen I know. Just saying.

Now Kerigan was drafted as a linebacker. I get it. Imagine the pressure we could get if they were in their natural positions.

You're wrong about Orakpo. He was drafted as a LB/DE fire the Skins. He was listed a such on their roster and played only on the LOS in posible passing downs and played off of it in running situation. He was drafted to essentially be a 3-4 OLB even though we had a base 4-3 D.
Carter was a 4-3 DE and played well as a DE. He played two seasons as a LB (his last year in San Fran and his one year under Shanny) and those were his worst two years of years of his career. He is also bigger than Kerrigan and Orakpo. When he was with the Skins he was usually around 275 (with amost no fat), while Kerrigan is around 260 and Orakpo is more like 255.

Orakpo is just too small to play every down as a 4-3 and would be a situational pass rusher DE, but ultimately would have to be a SAM. This would be similar to how Lavar was used under Marvin Lewis or how we used Ken Harvey. Or exactly how he is bring used now.

Kerrigan might be able to make the switch to DE by putting on some weight, but he is much better fit as an OLB.
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Postby StorminMormon86 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:54 pm

I personally think the personnel running this team has shown absolutely no improvement since the "Shanahan" era has begun. They screwed our defense by switching to a 3-4, drafted players who have turned out to be busts, and have also keep coaches on the payroll who continue to make boneheaded play calls and mistakes (Haslett and Danny Smith come immediately to mind). While I don't think Shanahan is going to get fired anytime soon, he and Allen should be held fully responsible. He promised that in 5 years this team would be turned around. We're now at the half way point in that 5 year plan, looking to finish with another losing season. No matter what the numbers are, a losing season is a losing season. These past ten years have been really hard to be a Skins fan.

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Postby riggofan » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:45 pm

You also thought John Beck was a good QB. :)

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Postby StorminMormon86 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:13 pm

riggofan wrote:You also thought John Beck was a good QB. :)

I thought he was better than Grossman. I don't necessarily define that as "good".

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Postby 1niksder » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:07 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:You're wrong about Orakpo. He was drafted as a LB/DE fire the Skins. He was listed a such on their roster and played only on the LOS in posible passing downs and played off of it in running situation. He was drafted to essentially be a 3-4 OLB even though we had a base 4-3 D.
Carter was a 4-3 DE and played well as a DE. He played two seasons as a LB (his last year in San Fran and his one year under Shanny) and those were his worst two years of years of his career. He is also bigger than Kerrigan and Orakpo. When he was with the Skins he was usually around 275 (with amost no fat), while Kerrigan is around 260 and Orakpo is more like 255.

Orakpo is just too small to play every down as a 4-3 and would be a situational pass rusher DE, but ultimately would have to be a SAM. This would be similar to how Lavar was used under Marvin Lewis or how we used Ken Harvey. Or exactly how he is bring used now.

Kerrigan might be able to make the switch to DE by putting on some weight, but he is much better fit as an OLB.


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Postby Countertrey » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:43 pm

1niksder wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:You're wrong about Orakpo. He was drafted as a LB/DE fire the Skins. He was listed a such on their roster and played only on the LOS in posible passing downs and played off of it in running situation. He was drafted to essentially be a 3-4 OLB even though we had a base 4-3 D.
Carter was a 4-3 DE and played well as a DE. He played two seasons as a LB (his last year in San Fran and his one year under Shanny) and those were his worst two years of years of his career. He is also bigger than Kerrigan and Orakpo. When he was with the Skins he was usually around 275 (with amost no fat), while Kerrigan is around 260 and Orakpo is more like 255.

Orakpo is just too small to play every down as a 4-3 and would be a situational pass rusher DE, but ultimately would have to be a SAM. This would be similar to how Lavar was used under Marvin Lewis or how we used Ken Harvey. Or exactly how he is bring used now.

Kerrigan might be able to make the switch to DE by putting on some weight, but he is much better fit as an OLB.


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Postby Kilmer72 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:45 pm

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:
por-tiz2skins wrote:
-Orakpo RE in college and Phillip Daniels said he is too.

-Kerrigan LE in college

-Barry Cofield was a 4-3 DT his whole career and is too small for it at NT

-London 4-3 MLB his whole career

-Lorenzo Alexander DE/DT in 4-3 with us

-Chris Wilson 4-3 DE

The whole secondary was in the 4-3 too

-Kendric 4-3 DT

-ROb Jackson 4-3 DE

-Jenkins 4-3 DT in college

You have "in college" a lot describing some of the players. That is all good if we are going to start playing SEC teams, but we play on the NFL.

Orakpo and Kerrigan were only drafted in the first round with the intent to play OLB in a 3-4 system. If they weren't drafted by a 3-4 team they wouldn't have gone in the first round. They are "tweeners" that are too small to play DE in the NFL and too big to play SAM or Will, they DON'T FIT A 4-3 system but are perfect for OLB in a 3-4 system.

Since they are our two best players on defense and they don't fit a 4-3 we can't afford to switch to back to a 3-4 unless we phan on trading those two players to a 3-4 team.

The rest of the players could probably play rolls in a 4-3 but players like Rob Jackson would have to transition to SAM or just 3rd down pass rusher.

Besides our base defense is a 3-4, but we play 4-3, 2-5- and 5-2 from time to time. Orakpo and Kerrigan could be used as 3rd down pass rushers, but that would mean taking them off the field on 1st and 2nd down or risk getting them worn out, but if you really knew enough about football you would already know that.


Brian was drafted as a defensive end for the Redskins and made probowl alternate in his first year. Andre Carter was a tweener also. I know Mike isn't going to convert. These line backers as in Kerrigan and Orakpo aren't all that good at covering and in a 3 point stance could do some damage. It wont happen I know. Just saying.

Now Kerigan was drafted as a linebacker. I get it. Imagine the pressure we could get if they were in their natural positions.

You're wrong about Orakpo. He was drafted as a LB/DE fire the Skins. He was listed a such on their roster and played only on the LOS in posible passing downs and played off of it in running situation. He was drafted to essentially be a 3-4 OLB even though we had a base 4-3 D.
Carter was a 4-3 DE and played well as a DE. He played two seasons as a LB (his last year in San Fran and his one year under Shanny) and those were his worst two years of years of his career. He is also bigger than Kerrigan and Orakpo. When he was with the Skins he was usually around 275 (with amost no fat), while Kerrigan is around 260 and Orakpo is more like 255.

Orakpo is just too small to play every down as a 4-3 and would be a situational pass rusher DE, but ultimately would have to be a SAM. This would be similar to how Lavar was used under Marvin Lewis or how we used Ken Harvey. Or exactly how he is bring used now.

Kerrigan might be able to make the switch to DE by putting on some weight, but he is much better fit as an OLB.



My bad and you are right. I actually had to call my brother because he is way better at the facts than I am. I tried looking it up but couldn't find any links on how he was drafted as. I was told that I just remember him as a DE because, that was his strong point. His weakness is still LB IMHO but I have to admit I was wrong. I forgot he did play LB in the 43 sometimes.

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Postby Kilmer72 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:54 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:I need to learn to be more precise. If in the near future, Mike is no longer here, a new regime may come in and think....Well you know, we can get more out of these guys if we used them to their expertise. Another words, if this happens which I hope it doesn't (because I want to succeed) someone might actually use some of our personnel at what they have most experience in doing.


no worries - I understand what you're getting at

two things ...

1 ... Mike came in determined to have a 3-4 defense AND that's the main reason Haslett was brought in - we've tried to add players that suit that

2 ... IMO Jim Haslett is out of here at the end of this season for not getting more out of his players and for not being a good DC

IMO - the defensive issues are not all because of Haslett but in the NFL you are gone when your in charge and things don't work

no matter who comes in as DC, they are going to have to do a better job with the players and the defense that the HC wants

I REALLY doubt that IF there is a new HC he will make the same mistake as Mike did & try to get players to do what they are not suited to



I agree and I actually like Haslett's aggressiveness. He just doesn't have answers when he needs to counter in the game.

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Postby riggofan » Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:13 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:
riggofan wrote:You also thought John Beck was a good QB. :)

I thought he was better than Grossman. I don't necessarily define that as "good".


LOL. :)

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:21 pm

Kilmer72 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:I need to learn to be more precise. If in the near future, Mike is no longer here, a new regime may come in and think....Well you know, we can get more out of these guys if we used them to their expertise. Another words, if this happens which I hope it doesn't (because I want to succeed) someone might actually use some of our personnel at what they have most experience in doing.


no worries - I understand what you're getting at

two things ...

1 ... Mike came in determined to have a 3-4 defense AND that's the main reason Haslett was brought in - we've tried to add players that suit that

2 ... IMO Jim Haslett is out of here at the end of this season for not getting more out of his players and for not being a good DC

IMO - the defensive issues are not all because of Haslett but in the NFL you are gone when your in charge and things don't work

no matter who comes in as DC, they are going to have to do a better job with the players and the defense that the HC wants

I REALLY doubt that IF there is a new HC he will make the same mistake as Mike did & try to get players to do what they are not suited to



I agree and I actually like Haslett's aggressiveness. He just doesn't have answers when he needs to counter in the game.


Haslett's unable to call different blitzes and use defensive line stunts. We always call the same blitz and it doesn't work because teams practice preventing it..........This is but one reason Haslett needs to go!!!!

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Postby riggofan » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:36 pm

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Haslett's unable to call different blitzes and use defensive line stunts. We always call the same blitz and it doesn't work because teams practice preventing it..........This is but one reason Haslett needs to go!!!!


You know man, I'll buy that argument!

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Postby DaSkinz Baby » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:08 pm

riggofan wrote:
DaSkinz Baby wrote:Haslett's unable to call different blitzes and use defensive line stunts. We always call the same blitz and it doesn't work because teams practice preventing it..........This is but one reason Haslett needs to go!!!!


You know man, I'll buy that argument!


Wow yep end of the world, riggofan will accept a point of view from me?? Israel will invade Gaza by morning and Iran will fire off it's first nuke by Sunday......

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

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Postby riggofan » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:44 pm

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Wow yep end of the world, riggofan will accept a point of view from me?? Israel will invade Gaza by morning and Iran will fire off it's first nuke by Sunday......

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Keeping my head down... :)

I never really know what to think about coordinators - especially judging a single game or a single season - but you make some good points.

I've coached soccer at a pretty high level for the past 15 years, so I kind of sympathize with Haz on the question of talent. You can be a good coach, but sometimes you just don't have the players.

On the other hand, it does seem like there are other coordinators out there getting it done. I read this comment about Mike Zimmer somewhere today:

"If you look at the Bengals defense, they have Geno Atkins, an absolute star, and Carlos Dunlap. That's about it. Somehow, Zimmer has Terence Newman of all people playing well, and he's getting production out of dopes like Pacman Jones and Vontaze Burfict."

Truth?

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Postby SkinsJock » Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:43 pm

I don't think Haslett is here next season ... but ....

Jim works for Mike and I'm fairly sure that Mike will be back ... so ...

Jim might still be here as DC if Mike thinks he's the best for this job - Mike & Bruce gave him the job they might still want him here
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

RG3 will benefit from having a full off season to prepare and a better 'fit' at both HC and OC

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Postby 1niksder » Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:38 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I don't think Haslett is here next season ... but ....

Jim works for Mike and I'm fairly sure that Mike will be back ... so ...

Jim might still be here as DC if Mike thinks he's the best for this job - Mike & Bruce gave him the job they might still want him here


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