Incompleteness of roster remodeling explains 3-6 record

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Postby DarthMonk » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:33 pm

gay4pacman wrote::::enters thread, throws out another colts comparison, runs for the hills:::


... and signed: I know this guy named Jimmy, he has a pet....POSTERNUTBAG! Thats his cats name, POSTERNUTBAG!!!

We just banned that cat.
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Postby Red_One43 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:29 pm

markshark84 wrote:Is this a joke or do you really not get it? Do you really not understand the politics behind football and free agency? Come on. As someone who speaks with NFL agents quite often, here are some of the tips given:


Oh I see, one of our resident THN experts (with credentials mind you) -- get your info from NFL agents? I have to admit you got me, because I only get my info from the TV, Radio and Internet.

(1) If you are on a team, you ALWAYS back your coach. He's the one that can play or sit you. Most of these players have incentive contracts and must hit their numbers to get paid. If they don't play, they won't get paid. Players know that one of the most important things is to be a team player. Mouthing off about your coach is literally the WORST thing you can do for a team. If you coach likes you --- you're set.


Take a look at the roll call of players I listed, they were former players and one of them, Carlos bashed the organization wich could be more fatal than bashing a coach. McNabb certainly bashed the Shannies and still got to play with another team, so much for you expert opinion.

Also, while you asking if this was a joke or not, you failed to notice that I listed sports writers as well, some of them have no problem bashing NFL organizations. Some move up to be NFL Network guys.

You also failed to notice a couple of Skins publicly questioned Shanny on his comments to the media about going into a evaluation mode. I guess your NFL agents forget to tell you about that.

(2) When it's a contract year, a player must ALWAYS say they want to go back to their original team. That way other teams will throw more money at them as an incentive to leave. And if there is less interest in the player, at least he is a "loyal team guy". And in terms of getting resigned, see number (1) --- if a coach likes you, you are more likely to get resigned.


Really? Are you serious with this? If they like you? Tell that to Dockery. Shanny said he liked Dock and Dock still got cut because he was not a ZBS blocker. There is more to it than just liking a player.

(3) After you leave, you NEVER say anything bad about the organization (as with any normal job). People don't like players that talk smack after they leave --- because they know that once he leaves the new organization, the same thing is likely to happen. This makes players less marketable on the free agency market. Look at TO; how's that working out for him? Besides, the only people that talk smack after they leave are players who the organization did see being part of the franchise moving forward. This is pretty known.


This is true in any business - one doesn't have to have talked to NFL agents to know this - BTW - it does happen, when someone feels that they were screwed, that they mouth off - See Donovan McNabb, LaRon Landry and Carlos Rogers -last I checked after leaving the Skins, they all found jobs and in McNabb's case it was his lack of current talent that got him let go - not his mouth.

(4) It is even more important to never talk smack about any person that has been in the league -- in any capacity -- for a long period of time. Most of the longer term coaches all know each other. Their assistants will become HCs. Their mentors are likely still HCs. They know GMs well. It's a fraternity at the HC and GM level. If you bad mouth one coach, you might as well talk smack about everyone in his "inner circle" --- which can be a ton of guys. For example, if you talk smack about Behichick, you are killing your chances of being signed with KC, DET, ATL, BAL, CLE, and PITT. Trust is very important in order for GMs to work with one another. And GMs give advice/help out other GMs (that they trust and have a history with) MUCH MUCH more than most people think.


Did you really learn all of this from NFL Agents?

This is NFL politics


What job or business doesn't have these politics you speak of?

Now, here is a tip for you, sometimes you can learn a lot more from a player's actions than what they say. Like Cooley. We know that he had offers from other teams to be a back up. We know players who refuse to take play cuts from their teams will go off and sign for less money with the new team just to try to make a point. Cooley did no such thing. He wanted to be a Redskin, period.
Fletcher, we know could have had his last hurrah with another team. Perhaps a play-off caliber team, but he chose to stay here. That is a statement with out saying anything. The Skins didn't break the bank to keep him. He could have got pissed that the Skins let him be available for the Free Agency, but he stayed put. Santana was allowed to test the FA market and he got offers, but he chose to stay here.

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Postby chiefhog44 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:45 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
markshark84 wrote:Is this a joke or do you really not get it? Do you really not understand the politics behind football and free agency? Come on. As someone who speaks with NFL agents quite often, here are some of the tips given:


Oh I see, one of our resident THN experts (with credentials mind you) -- get your info from NFL agents? I have to admit you got me, because I only get my info from the TV, Radio and Internet.

(1) If you are on a team, you ALWAYS back your coach. He's the one that can play or sit you. Most of these players have incentive contracts and must hit their numbers to get paid. If they don't play, they won't get paid. Players know that one of the most important things is to be a team player. Mouthing off about your coach is literally the WORST thing you can do for a team. If you coach likes you --- you're set.


Take a look at the roll call of players I listed, they were former players and one of them, Carlos bashed the organization wich could be more fatal than bashing a coach. McNabb certainly bashed the Shannies and still got to play with another team, so much for you expert opinion.

Also, while you asking if this was a joke or not, you failed to notice that I listed sports writers as well, some of them have no problem bashing NFL organizations. Some move up to be NFL Network guys.

You also failed to notice a couple of Skins publicly questioned Shanny on his comments to the media about going into a evaluation mode. I guess your NFL agents forget to tell you about that.

(2) When it's a contract year, a player must ALWAYS say they want to go back to their original team. That way other teams will throw more money at them as an incentive to leave. And if there is less interest in the player, at least he is a "loyal team guy". And in terms of getting resigned, see number (1) --- if a coach likes you, you are more likely to get resigned.


Really? Are you serious with this? If they like you? Tell that to Dockery. Shanny said he liked Dock and Dock still got cut because he was not a ZBS blocker. There is more to it than just liking a player.

(3) After you leave, you NEVER say anything bad about the organization (as with any normal job). People don't like players that talk smack after they leave --- because they know that once he leaves the new organization, the same thing is likely to happen. This makes players less marketable on the free agency market. Look at TO; how's that working out for him? Besides, the only people that talk smack after they leave are players who the organization did see being part of the franchise moving forward. This is pretty known.


This is true in any business - one doesn't have to have talked to NFL agents to know this - BTW - it does happen, when someone feels that they were screwed, that they mouth off - See Donovan McNabb, LaRon Landry and Carlos Rogers -last I checked after leaving the Skins, they all found jobs and in McNabb's case it was his lack of current talent that got him let go - not his mouth.

(4) It is even more important to never talk smack about any person that has been in the league -- in any capacity -- for a long period of time. Most of the longer term coaches all know each other. Their assistants will become HCs. Their mentors are likely still HCs. They know GMs well. It's a fraternity at the HC and GM level. If you bad mouth one coach, you might as well talk smack about everyone in his "inner circle" --- which can be a ton of guys. For example, if you talk smack about Behichick, you are killing your chances of being signed with KC, DET, ATL, BAL, CLE, and PITT. Trust is very important in order for GMs to work with one another. And GMs give advice/help out other GMs (that they trust and have a history with) MUCH MUCH more than most people think.


Did you really learn all of this from NFL Agents?

This is NFL politics


What job or business doesn't have these politics you speak of?

Now, here is a tip for you, sometimes you can learn a lot more from a player's actions than what they say. Like Cooley. We know that he had offers from other teams to be a back up. We know players who refuse to take play cuts from their teams will go off and sign for less money with the new team just to try to make a point. Cooley did no such thing. He wanted to be a Redskin, period.
Fletcher, we know could have had his last hurrah with another team. Perhaps a play-off caliber team, but he chose to stay here. That is a statement with out saying anything. The Skins didn't break the bank to keep him. He could have got pissed that the Skins let him be available for the Free Agency, but he stayed put. Santana was allowed to test the FA market and he got offers, but he chose to stay here.


Not to butt in, but add in all the guys on Sirius NFL radio which include almost all ex players, or retired GMs including Pat Kirwin. Most all of them say this staff needs more time and patience through this adversity attributing most of the problems to injuries to key players and some of the players left from the last regime like Hall. He's overrated as we all know. They will have to replace him this offseason.

Remember that there has only been a handful of rookie QBs who own a winning record through a season in history. I think we have to give this a bit more time. I'm not being a homer here, just feel like we need to see this out. If we are not winning consistently by next year, I'll be right there with everyone looking for a replacement.
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Postby SkinsJock » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:28 am

not now chief - :lol: some here don't want to hear anything even close to what you're suggesting

patience is not part of the equation here it seems :lol:

fire everyone ... how bad can things be ... we're sick and tired of "wait till .... "

I'm as disapointed in how things have gone and I hope we go 7-0 but to me the reality is I really do think that with RG3 things will be a lot better here

now, Im not sure who will be HC, DC, or OC but I do know that we have clear evidence that we have a very special QB

we are very close but ...

nothing good can come from letting coaches go at this time
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Postby Chris Luva Luva » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:56 am

chiefhog44 wrote:Not to butt in, but add in all the guys on Sirius NFL radio which include almost all ex players, or retired GMs including Pat Kirwin. Most all of them say this staff needs more time and patience through this adversity attributing most of the problems to injuries to key players and some of the players left from the last regime like Hall.


You're wrong...

1. You should know by now that common sense doesn't work with 9/10 fans.
2. You're asking "fans" to be patient and sensible.
3. You're referencing people who know what they're talking about, that doesn't work.

So you're right, but you're wrong for thinking that your post will help. LOL I agree with you but you don't need to persuade me. I'm not overly emotional and irrational... I used to come her to get away from such feminine traits. Now... I'm just stuck between a rock and hard place.
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Postby Red_One43 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:33 pm

chiefhog44 wrote:I think we have to give this a bit more time. I'm not being a homer here, just feel like we need to see this out. If we are not winning consistently by next year, I'll be right there with everyone looking for a replacement.


Agreed

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Postby chiefhog44 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:38 pm

Red_One43 wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:I think we have to give this a bit more time. I'm not being a homer here, just feel like we need to see this out. If we are not winning consistently by next year, I'll be right there with everyone looking for a replacement.


Agreed


In addition, you're not going to find a top coach who wants to come in here with no first round draft pick next year and missing 18 million in cap space. Sorry fellas, but we've GOT to be patient.
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Postby riggofan » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:46 am

chiefhog44 wrote:In addition, you're not going to find a top coach who wants to come in here with no first round draft pick next year and missing 18 million in cap space. Sorry fellas, but we've GOT to be patient.


I know the cap penalty will continue to suck, but I've heard in a few places that our cap situation next year isn't terrible. Probably have to cut ties with a couple overpriced guys, but we're not in cap hell. Where's 1niksder to comment?

I don't want to see a coaching change this year, but I'll bet a guy like Gruden would be interested in coming here because of our QB. We might not have a first round pick this year, but we have RGIII.

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Postby Deadskins » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:34 am

chiefhog44 wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:I think we have to give this a bit more time. I'm not being a homer here, just feel like we need to see this out. If we are not winning consistently by next year, I'll be right there with everyone looking for a replacement.


Agreed


In addition, you're not going to find a top coach who wants to come in here with no first round draft pick next year and missing 18 million in cap space. Sorry fellas, but we've GOT to be patient.

No coach would not come here for those reasons. That just elevates the challenge. The salary and a chance to coach RGIII would be enough to entice most coaches to come to DC.
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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:53 pm

:shock: beat that horse - go ahead, hit it again ... you can't hurt it, it's dead!
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Postby Kilmer72 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:58 pm

SkinsJock wrote::shock: beat that horse - go ahead, hit it again ... you can't hurt it, it's dead!


I agree. You have to admit though; it would be hard to blame Danny if we do not win any more games this year.

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Postby SkinsJock » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:42 pm

why would anyone blame Snyder if we don't win any more games?

Snyder is JUST the owner ... or as I prefer, the MFO :wink:

Snyder is responsible for the mess we're in but he has nothing to do with the steps we've taken since

Snyder needs to keep away from anything to do with the players or what happens on the field
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Postby Kilmer72 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:16 pm

Almost no one would blame Snyder if we do not win anymore games. Some people might blame him for hiring a new coach, if we do not win anymore games.

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Postby SkinsJock » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:58 am

Kilmer72 wrote:Almost no one would blame Snyder if we do not win anymore games. Some people might blame him for hiring a new coach, if we do not win anymore games.


I get your point - there's no doubt that Mike would be gone if we end up at 3-13

I just don't understand that some here can look at this group and think that we're not winning another game with 7 games to go :shock:
RG3 is now learning how to play QB in the NFL - Mike & Kyle did not help with the transition

Jay & Sean are going to make it happen ... "He has the ability and the desire, he just has to do it.” - J Gruden

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Postby fetus » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:12 am

SkinsJock wrote:
Kilmer72 wrote:Almost no one would blame Snyder if we do not win anymore games. Some people might blame him for hiring a new coach, if we do not win anymore games.


I get your point - there's no doubt that Mike would be gone if we end up at 3-13

I just don't understand that some here can look at this group and think that we're not winning another game with 7 games to go :shock:


100% agree
you all do realize we play the cowboys twice the eagles twice the giants once more, the browns and ravens.
Maybe I'm too optimistic but I see at least 5 wins there, atleast 5 games we should win
RGIII and the terrible D

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