Mann and Green: problem with D is Lack of Development

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Postby Deadskins » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:22 am

Gibbs used to stash folks on IR but the roster size has increased from 40 up to 53 since the '70s, and now they also have eight man practice squads.

As for players learning technique on their own: I ask, from who? Unless they study old game film of the greats at their positions, or learn it from veterans, how exactly should they teach themselves?
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Postby chiefhog44 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:26 am

Deadskins wrote:Gibbs used to stash folks on IR but the roster size has increased from 40 up to 53 since the '70s, and now they also have eight man practice squads.

As for players learning technique on their own: I ask, from who? Unless they study old game film of the greats at their positions, or learn it from veterans, how exactly should they teach themselves?


Just like Orakpo, he went out to KC to learn from Derek Brooks in the offseason. These guys all go out to AZ or FL in the offseason to train with other players now, and at those events, its an opportunity to ask players like Fitzgerald or Brees to teach you technique. It's a must to continue to improve. Just like any profession. Better yourself by going outside the workplace and getting educated. Some do that and some don't. These guys are professionals. The onus is on them much more today than ever before. I doubt Mann and Green ever did that during their offseason, mostly because no one did it, but also because teams had much more time and less restrictions on what and how they could teach
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Postby chiefhog44 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:43 am

I don't know the answer though bro. I really don't, just repeating what some people like Pat Kirwin have said. I do think Mann is right in that the coaches need to step back and hammer in the basics again during this bye. The penalties are killing us and that is lack of discipline. We shall see if they come out sharper.

We also need to get some continuity. It seems like every time we can get a group of players playing for a couple games together, we start to really look good. Then we have a very good player go down and we lose it for a couple. Ever since Fred Davis went down, as I predicted, this offense has struggled mightily. The line has been playing together now for almost a year, and they look pretty solid. You can take the quote from the article about learning Moma's recipe and apply it here. It takes a a while to understand how the new ingredients are going to mix together and settle, but after each injury to a key ingredient, you are basically adjusting on the fly. This is where I think Haslett is lacking. He needs time to think about the changes, where as the best coaches can adjust on the fly much quicker.
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Postby RayNAustin » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:08 pm

As I've been saying since last season and that terrible debacle of John Beck and Rex Grossman, among other rather questionable coaching decisions .. and now acknowledged by a couple Redskin greats, who's opinions cannot be so easily dismissed or ridiculed as mine have been. Make no mistake what Mann and Green are REALLY saying ... keeping in mind that they will not cause a ruckus or controversy, and will temper their opinions with an appropriate level of diplomacy which individuals such as myself are not restrained by.

Reading between the lines ... they are saying that we have a problem at the coaching staff level, starting at the top. There is no other way to honestly evaluate the statements made, because these areas of criticism are the sole responsibilities of that coaching staff, starting with the Head Coach, and the three main assistant coaches ... the OC, DC, STC.

Who is responsible for the final product on the field? The Head Coach. And just who is responsible for, and how does one tell a head coach how to be a Head Coach, particularly one that is known for his dominant ego and arrogance like Shanahan? The answer is, NOBODY is, and you shouldn't need to, because that is the mans freaking job. That's his ENTIRE JOB ... to oversee and make sure that all of his assistants are preparing the players properly and getting the best performance and production out of them.

What on earth do people think "Coordinators" and "position coaches" are supposed to be doing? They are responsible for analyzing the performance of those players to whom they coach ... from the receiver's coach to the running back coach ... THAT IS WHAT THEY DO ... analyze and correct poor technique and position strategy .... the damned running back coach isn't teaching them a "system" .... they teach technique and strategy relative to what the offensive system scheme requires ... in our case, the offensive line coach is teaching the technique of zone blocking ... the running back coach teaches the most effective technique and strategy for maximizing production within that zone blocking scheme, which is different that a man to man power scheme. The same can be said of Defensive Backs coach ... technique and strategy is completely different with zone, man to man, and combinations. Line Backers in a 34 defense have different duties than Line Backers in a 43 ... and much of that involves technique and strategy.

With that said ... what the hell are Darrel Green and Charles Mann saying again? They are politely saying that the coaches are not doing a very good job. They even went so far as to say EXACTLY what I've been saying, with slightly different verbiage ... they said that we're not getting the most out of the talent we have .... while I've simply said that the coaches are accomplishing less success with better talent than previous coaches have had in the past ... including the rookie HC Jim Zorn.

Remember, the major excuse for Shanahan was that he needed time to rebuild the roster, because of lack of talent .... so you cannot now say that after three years, he doesn't have better talent than what Jim Zorn was working with ... because if that's true, that's Shanahan's fault ALSO. Zorn didn't have that power of personnel ... that was Vinny and Danny.

If I'm Snyder, I fire the Shana-clan RIGHT NOW ... and grab Jon Gruden before someone else does .... because he is the best prospective coach out there in my opinion ... and would do wonders for this team. That guy knows how to coach em' up and motivate and he is absolutely a coach that players not only like and admire, but he gets the best out of them ... something the Shanahans have miserably failed to do.

It is beyond imagination how you can have such an unbelievable performance from our two amazing rookies, RG3 & Morris ... and still find a way to be marginally pathetic.

Look what the damned Colts have managed to accomplish for crying out loud .... they were supposed to be WAY BEHIND the Redskins ... and yet here we are at 3-6 ... and there they are at 6-3. If that's not enough to have your blood boiling at this point .... you aren't paying attention, or you are living in denial.

Just consider a rather troubling reality ... Raheem Morris was fired by Tampa Bay for going 17-31, and justifiably so. Mike Shanahan is 14-27 .... and I do not see 3 wins in the next 7 games, from the performance we've seen from this team this year .... particularly when the Head Coach pretty much conceded the season lost last week, which angered some of the players.

He should have been fired on the spot .... no excuses ... no cry baby crap .. FIRED ... OUT-OUT-OUT-OUT !!!! Throw in the towel Coach? Good ... include the keys to the front door .... you won't be needing them anymore.

Just as it is a sign of incompetence to change staffs prematurely or when such action isn't demanded or called for .... so too is it incompetent not to change coaches when it most certainly is called for.

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