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Deadskins
JSPB22
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 14714
Location: Location, LOCATION!
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| Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | You: Peyton should go to the Colts to restructure his deal and stay there.
Me: No he shouldn't. That's dumb.
Reality: Peyton did not restructure to stay in Indy.
You: Peyton has no leverage with the Colts before he was cut.
Me: Peyton has all the leverage because he's going to become a Free Agent.
Reality: Peyton became a Free Agent.
You: Peyton won't have options who will pay him anything close to his old deal. He's old, injured, and will be shopping at the Dollar Store.
Me: You're nuts to say that. Peyton will be sought after in FA and will get PAID.
Reality: Peyton had several teams vying for his services and he signed a 5 Year $96M deal. |
Even if the arguments you lay out above were the arguments that were actually made, your reality tag lines do not prove you right in any of the three instances. 
The third is the closest, but still misses, because we all know that reported contracts never show the real money. |
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KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 10021
Location: Kazmania
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Deadskins wrote: | | The Hogster wrote: | You: Peyton should go to the Colts to restructure his deal and stay there.
Me: No he shouldn't. That's dumb.
Reality: Peyton did not restructure to stay in Indy.
You: Peyton has no leverage with the Colts before he was cut.
Me: Peyton has all the leverage because he's going to become a Free Agent.
Reality: Peyton became a Free Agent.
You: Peyton won't have options who will pay him anything close to his old deal. He's old, injured, and will be shopping at the Dollar Store.
Me: You're nuts to say that. Peyton will be sought after in FA and will get PAID.
Reality: Peyton had several teams vying for his services and he signed a 5 Year $96M deal. |
Even if the arguments you lay out above were the arguments that were actually made, your reality tag lines do not prove you right in any of the three instances.
The third is the closest, but still misses, because we all know that reported contracts never show the real money. |
+1 |
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The Hogster
#######
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:40 am Post subject: |
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+None
It's called reality. Giggle Girls in full effect.  |
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KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 10021
Location: Kazmania
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | +None
It's called reality. Giggle Girls in full effect. |
He didn't say your "reality" wasn't true, he said it didn't prove your assertion. You seriously didn't get that? You're a lawyer? You took the LSAT?  |
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The Hogster
#######
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| KazooSkinsFan wrote: | | The Hogster wrote: | +None
It's called reality. Giggle Girls in full effect. |
He didn't say your "reality" wasn't true, he said it didn't prove your assertion. You seriously didn't get that? You're a lawyer? You took the LSAT? |
168 on the LSAT.
Passed the Virginia Bar
Passed NFLPA Agent Certification
46 on the Wonderlic
Oh and easily destroy weak arguments on the THN by posters who don't know when to separate emotion from debate and go all in on a losing proposition just for the sake of disagreeing with me. 
I suggest that you delete your profile and create another one.........AGAIN.  |
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3204
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | 168 on the LSAT.
Passed the Virginia Bar
Passed NFLPA Agent Certification
46 on the Wonderlic
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Let's assume this is true. I have no reason to doubt it as none of the claims are "off the charts."
This leads me to believe Hogman has a brain.
| The Hogster wrote: | Oh and easily destroy weak arguments on the THN by posters who don't know when to separate emotion from debate and go all in on a losing proposition just for the sake of disagreeing with me.
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His posts indicate he likes to avoid using it (his brain) when he can belittle someone instead. For instance (Hogman in yellow, me in blue):
Note when he finally reads the link that did exactly what HE SAID i wasn't doing (over several posts) all he could say was "Have you read your own stats??" followed by a sarcastic "Even based on this link we were dead last in FG make % excluding blocks in 2010. This year we improved to an impressive 18th in the league," all of which I had pointed out TO HIM long ago in that thread.
Hogman, I often like your posts but you so often rebut people without (apparently) reading what they say that you lose credibility. I know you may not care (I sense a Dr. Phil post coming) and that's fine. I'm just sayin'. 
DarthMonk |
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KazooSkinsFan
kazoo
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 10021
Location: Kazmania
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | 168 on the LSAT.
Passed the Virginia Bar
Passed NFLPA Agent Certification
46 on the Wonderlic |
Here's a fact, I don't remember my LSAT score, but it was higher then the average of the incoming law class at #1 Yale and I only took it for fun. The wife of a bud I rented a room from during college was taking it to actually go to law school. I took a couple practice tests with her and it was fun, so I took the exam. You were in the bottom 25th percentile at Yale.
I turned down UVA for my MBA and went to Michigan where I graduated with high distinction, top 10% of the class. My GMAT also was above most of the incoming Yale class who are #1 in business scores as well.
Just the facts. Maybe that's why I only work for myself. Well, and my wife... |
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Irn-Bru
FanFromAnnapolis
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 10627
Location: on the bandwagon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| For everyone not discussing the Skins: I suggest comparing personal achievements in a non-football forum, like The Lounge or (if you want to let it be a free for all) Smack. Please help us clean up Hogwash of this . . . well . . . hogwash. |
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UK Skins Fan
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 4437
Location: Somewhere, out there.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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So this isn't the right thread for me to tell everybody how clever I am?
Damn.
Oh well, back to the topic - has Peyton arrived yet? |
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Irn-Bru wrote: | | For everyone not discussing the Skins: I suggest comparing personal achievements in a non-football forum, like The Lounge or (if you want to let it be a free for all) Smack. Please help us clean up Hogwash of this . . . well . . . hogwash. |
What if you can't discuss the Redskins without interjecting personal achievements?
I-B you're gonna LOVE the new board |
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SouthLondonRedskin
Hog
Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 1113
Location: South London, UK
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| UK Skins Fan wrote: | So this isn't the right thread for me to tell everybody how clever I am?
Damn.
Oh well, back to the topic - has Peyton arrived yet? |
Yeah, he showed up, heard all the bs that was going on here and said 'Sod this, I'm going to Denver!'
I don't blame him... |
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The Hogster
#######
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| KazooSkinsFan wrote: | | The Hogster wrote: | 168 on the LSAT.
Passed the Virginia Bar
Passed NFLPA Agent Certification
46 on the Wonderlic |
Here's a fact, I don't remember my LSAT score, but it was higher then the average of the incoming law class at #1 Yale and I only took it for fun. The wife of a bud I rented a room from during college was taking it to actually go to law school. I took a couple practice tests with her and it was fun, so I took the exam. You were in the bottom 25th percentile at Yale.
I turned down UVA for my MBA and went to Michigan where I graduated with high distinction, top 10% of the class. My GMAT also was above most of the incoming Yale class who are #1 in business scores as well.
Just the facts. Maybe that's why I only work for myself. Well, and my wife... |
My post was SARCASM. Not an invitation to read your Resume. Nobody cares.  |
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DarthMonk
DarthMonk
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 3204
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| Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Irn-Bru wrote: | | For everyone not discussing the Skins: I suggest comparing personal achievements in a non-football forum, like The Lounge or (if you want to let it be a free for all) Smack. Please help us clean up Hogwash of this . . . well . . . hogwash. |
Thanks. I like the closing "hogwash."
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1niksder
**********
Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Posts: 16578
Location: If I knew ... it would explain a lot but I've seen Homerville on a map, that wasn't helpful at all
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| The Hogster wrote: | | 1niksder wrote: | When did 18 become more than 23, other than in you're world.
They never talked so you can't say what he would have gotten. You can't comprehend what I was saying and I get that. But how can you say he wouldn't have gotten more than $18M for 16 weeks from a team that paid him $26M for Zero weeks. I gave a example of what he might have gotten way before you quoted what the pontifs said he was likely to get.
I had a opinion and you still don't... you still don't get it and have no capacity to get it.
You had nothing then and you got nothing now even though we waited for the deal to be done you still got nothing, nada zelch. |
You: Peyton should go to the Colts to restructure his deal and stay there.
Me: No he shouldn't. That's dumb.
Reality: Peyton did not restructure to stay in Indy.
You: Peyton has no leverage with the Colts before he was cut.
Me: Peyton has all the leverage because he's going to become a Free Agent.
Reality: Peyton became a Free Agent.
You: Peyton won't have options who will pay him anything close to his old deal. He's old, injured, and will be shopping at the Dollar Store.
Me: You're nuts to say that. Peyton will be sought after in FA and will get PAID.
Reality: Peyton had several teams vying for his services and he signed a 5 Year $96M deal.
Dude. You're done. Sit down and spend your time learning rather than whining and crying over spilled milk. I'm getting tired of schooling you. Take off the training wheels. Check please. |
Reality is you never read the points you argued against has proven in the leverage thread....
Reality is he became a free agent because he got cut, it wasn't his choice the Colts had all the leverage.
Reality is he had a few teams that were interested in him and the Broncos offered him a 1 year prove you can play contract guaranteeing his base pay and no other commitment.
Reality is Pierre Garcon got a better deal than Peyton. Peyton's deal is set up to pay out as the season plays out. When the season ends Peyton will have nothing but hope. He won't even have the option the restructure, while Garcon, got $11M just to sign with Washington, Washington will spead that money over the length of his deal(5 years $2.2M per), just like the Broncos will spread Manning money over the length of his deal (1 year $18M). When a team commits to a player they spread the money out because they know the player will be there. That didn't happen with Peyton. Garcon got cash, Peyton got a appointment with a doctor next year. Pierre has his 2012, 2013 and another $4M guaranteed, Manning got all he could and hopes for more. If they both got cut today Manning would walk with $18M Garcon would pocket $20.5M. Both left the Colts, both signed with other teams one has guaranteed money in the future weather he stay with his new team or not the other will be at the mercy of the team's doctors in 11 months.
That the reality of Peyton's deal, if you don't get it I can break down somebody else's new deal
Josh Morgan signed a five year deal that voids after two... That's a deal that says we want you to stick around for a few years but money is tight so we'll work it out so you get yours now and we will deal with the cap later, Morgan didn't pocket as much as Garcon did up front but he was paid $5.5M more than Peyton got to sign. Players with a lot of teams interested in them get upfront money for signing, Peyton had so many offers he took the one that paid him $0.00 up front.
The Colts would have given him at least the same amount Garcon got AT LEAST. Both of my examples had Manning's 2012 and 2013 base salaries of $7.4M and $8.4M being converted to signing bonus money, that's a $15.8M starting point versus getting zero.
Of course you knew all this, why else did you not even bother to read what you were arguing against, right?
Let us know when reality finally hits you. |
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The Hogster
#######
Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 7002
Location: Washington D.C.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:40 am Post subject: |
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1niksder wrote:
| Quote: | | Reality is Pierre Garcon got a better deal than Peyton. Peyton's deal is set up to pay out as the season plays out. When the season ends Peyton will have nothing but hope. |
 And, with this, it has become incredibly clear that your posts are not worth responding to anymore. This is beyond misinformation.
FYI - Every NFL contract is essentially a series of 1 year deals. When the season ends, Peyton will have (i) $18M and (ii) $40M+ guaranteed if he is on the Broncos roster at the beginning of the 2013 league year. Which is essentially built in protection against Peyton getting another neck injury. If you read his Injury Guarantee, you will see that Peyton's salary is even guaranteed against Skill and Injury (except for to his neck). So if he goes out this year and tears an ACL, he still gets paid.
I'm done. Read something from another professional before you continue spreading inaccurate information. Per Andrew Brandt:
| Quote: | The first year of Manning's deal with the Broncos will pay the quarterback $18 million without injury protection for the Denver Broncos, according to Brandt. The Broncos will then pay Manning $40 million guaranteed for the next two seasons, pending Manning passing a physical in March of 2013. The final two seasons of Manning's deal will pay out $19 million each season.
As it stands right now, Manning's deal is essentially a one-year deal for $18 million guaranteed, but if he's fully healthy in March of 2013, it will jump to a total of $58 million guaranteed for the first three years. |
That's not hope. That's hardcore security that if Peyton goes out and doesn't sustain a career ending neck injury, he's getting $58M GUARANTEED over 3 years. If you read NFL Contracts, you'll know that any contract on a player with an injury is going to have a similar exclusion. I personally drafted one for a client with a similar injury to Peyton's, a LT who played for the SD Chargers last year & is now a FA. BTW, even if he restructured with the Colts as you wanted, he still would have had an injury exclusion. Everybody in the world knew of Peyton's injury. Nobody was going to offer him a contract without an injury exclusion. So you are not making any point. It's funny how your argument shifted from Peyton should stay in Indy, to he'll never get another good deal, to well he'll never get the money on the good deal he signed.
http://www.sbnation.com/2012-nfl-free-agency/2012/3/20/2887461/peyton-manning-contract-denver-broncos
Last edited by The Hogster on Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Even based on this link we were dead last in FG make % excluding blocks in 2010. This year we improved to an impressive 18th in the league. Yay.