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skinsfan#33
#33
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Posts: 3875
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| yupchagee wrote: | | HEROHAMO wrote: | I have said this before but I will say it again.
The team a player goes to has alot to do with how a player develops. What if Jerry Rice were drafted by the Detroit Lions? Lets say he befriends a thug on the team and started taking drugs? History may be different today?
In the mid 90s the Skins sucked. We drafted Michael Westbrook. I bet he would have been a star if drafted by the Packers or Niners in the mid 90s.
So I will be happy with a good character , talented player at no. 21. I dont see how any team would let go of a young talented player for cheap?
I rather our team take its chances with a draft pick and breed our own champions. Hopefully. |
Rice would have been Rice no matter who drafted him. Of course his performance wasn't hurt at all by the players surounding him. |
No way Rice even cracks the top ten (well maybe the top 5) in receptions if he had been drafted by say the Cardinals instead of the 9ers. He played on a pass happy team that had a HoF QB (maybe the best ever) and when Motana started showing his age they plugged in anither HoF QB.
Rice still would have been great, but not "Jerry Rice" if he had fallen into that black hole out in the Dessert .
Westbrook would have been a disaster no matter what. |
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HEROHAMO
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Joined: 20 Oct 2004
Posts: 4027
Location: SANTA ANA,CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Fios wrote: | | HEROHAMO wrote: | I have said this before but I will say it again.
The team a player goes to has alot to do with how a player develops. What if Jerry Rice were drafted by the Detroit Lions? Lets say he befriends a thug on the team and started taking drugs? History may be different today?
In the mid 90s the Skins sucked. We drafted Michael Westbrook. I bet he would have been a star if drafted by the Packers or Niners in the mid 90s. |
I disagree strongly, the player's character plays a much larger role in determining his success. Jerry Rice was determined to be a great wideout, his numbers might have suffered playing for a lesser team but to suggest he would have descended into crime is inane. Same goes for Westbrook, his crap attitude sunk him. |
I agree that character is very very important.
character is shaped by your life experiences and how much a person has grown as far as mentally , spiritually and physically.
I also believe that the program a player walks into is very important as well. A strong character guy has a better chance of success wherever they may go. A marginal character guy may not thrive if put in a bad situation. Put that marginal character guy under a guy like Vince Lombardi and he may grow as a person and become a great player as well.
Here two quotes that come to mind.
“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”
“Your outlook upon life, your estimate of yourself, your estimate of your value are largely colored by your environment. Your whole career will be modified, shaped, molded by your surroundings, by the character of the people with whom you come in contact every day...”
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Irn-Bru
FanFromAnnapolis
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 10627
Location: on the bandwagon
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| frankcal20 wrote: | | You and I are not running the front office. I can't say that Lloyd or ARE are cheap. We paid too much for Lloyd and I said that to begin with. He was known for making spectacular catches but that was about it. |
But that's just it. The level at which Lloyd and Randle El showed that they could make plays dictated their salary levels. The Redskins may have payed more than other teams were willing to, but probably not by all that much.
You keep saying that you don't think finding the player you describe would be hard. That's where I strongly disagree—if it was really that easy, everyone would be doing it. |
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frankcal20
^^^^^^^
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 8965
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Irn-Bru wrote: | | frankcal20 wrote: | | You and I are not running the front office. I can't say that Lloyd or ARE are cheap. We paid too much for Lloyd and I said that to begin with. He was known for making spectacular catches but that was about it. |
But that's just it. The level at which Lloyd and Randle El showed that they could make plays dictated their salary levels. The Redskins may have payed more than other teams were willing to, but probably not by all that much.
You keep saying that you don't think finding the player you describe would be hard. That's where I strongly disagree—if it was really that easy, everyone would be doing it. |
I guess so. I guess I'm just hoping one day we will land someone instead of the continuous failures we have seen in recent years past. |
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VetSkinsFan
One Step Away
Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 7779
Location: NoVA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Irn-Bru wrote: | | frankcal20 wrote: | | You and I are not running the front office. I can't say that Lloyd or ARE are cheap. We paid too much for Lloyd and I said that to begin with. He was known for making spectacular catches but that was about it. |
But that's just it. The level at which Lloyd and Randle El showed that they could make plays dictated their salary levels. The Redskins may have payed more than other teams were willing to, but probably not by all that much.
You keep saying that you don't think finding the player you describe would be hard. That's where I strongly disagree—if it was really that easy, everyone would be doing it. |
Lloyd was known for a bad attitude before they even thought of bringing him here. I don't like to lump Lloyd and ARE in the same category b/c at least ARE has contributed SOMETHING. |
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frankcal20
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Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 8965
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Our beloved team offered two 1st round picks for Chad Johnson. We are stupid. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| frankcal20 wrote: | | Our beloved team offered two 1st round picks for Chad Johnson. We are stupid. |
Are you positive it was our team? It could have been Dallas or Philly.
And Rosenhaus can't and won't say which team offered what. |
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Irn-Bru
FanFromAnnapolis
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 10627
Location: on the bandwagon
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| VetSkinsFan wrote: | | Irn-Bru wrote: | | frankcal20 wrote: | | You and I are not running the front office. I can't say that Lloyd or ARE are cheap. We paid too much for Lloyd and I said that to begin with. He was known for making spectacular catches but that was about it. |
But that's just it. The level at which Lloyd and Randle El showed that they could make plays dictated their salary levels. The Redskins may have payed more than other teams were willing to, but probably not by all that much.
You keep saying that you don't think finding the player you describe would be hard. That's where I strongly disagree—if it was really that easy, everyone would be doing it. |
Lloyd was known for a bad attitude before they even thought of bringing him here. I don't like to lump Lloyd and ARE in the same category b/c at least ARE has contributed SOMETHING. |
I agree, of course ARE has contributed far more than Lloyd was able to.
Before we brought Lloyd in, it was also difficult to tell how much of his reputation was the 49ers talking trash about him and how much was true bad attitude. I looked up the THN threads around the time that we acquired Lloyd, and I must say that the overwhelming mood was one of optimism. . .hardly anyone (actually, I didn't see anyone) was warning of locker room dangers. |
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frankcal20
^^^^^^^
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 8965
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Sure he's not going to say who but this looks like a pretty good assumption, not to mention it is being reported:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/
| Quote: | | Skins still very interested in trading their 21st overall draft pick, and, according to sources, the Redskins made another approach for Johnson in the last day or so, shopping multiple first round picks, and were rebuffed again. |
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GSPODS
Hog
Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 4983
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| frankcal20 wrote: | Sure he's not going to say who but this looks like a pretty good assumption, not to mention it is being reported:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/
| Quote: | | Skins still very interested in trading their 21st overall draft pick, and, according to sources, the Redskins made another approach for Johnson in the last day or so, shopping multiple first round picks, and were rebuffed again. |
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We're having the same discussion in two different threads.
I think I'll stick to just one thread. Easier for both of us. |
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frankcal20
^^^^^^^
Joined: 24 Mar 2004
Posts: 8965
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| gotcha |
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yupchagee
#14
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 4112
Location: Louisville KY
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| skinsfan#33 wrote: | | yupchagee wrote: | | HEROHAMO wrote: | I have said this before but I will say it again.
The team a player goes to has alot to do with how a player develops. What if Jerry Rice were drafted by the Detroit Lions? Lets say he befriends a thug on the team and started taking drugs? History may be different today?
In the mid 90s the Skins sucked. We drafted Michael Westbrook. I bet he would have been a star if drafted by the Packers or Niners in the mid 90s.
So I will be happy with a good character , talented player at no. 21. I dont see how any team would let go of a young talented player for cheap?
I rather our team take its chances with a draft pick and breed our own champions. Hopefully. |
Rice would have been Rice no matter who drafted him. Of course his performance wasn't hurt at all by the players surounding him. |
No way Rice even cracks the top ten (well maybe the top 5) in receptions if he had been drafted by say the Cardinals instead of the 9ers. He played on a pass happy team that had a HoF QB (maybe the best ever) and when Motana started showing his age they plugged in anither HoF QB.
Rice still would have been great, but not "Jerry Rice" if he had fallen into that black hole out in the Dessert .
Westbrook would have been a disaster no matter what. |
When I said "Rice would have been Rice" I didn't mean he would have had the same #'s, I meant he would have been the same person. His character would have been the same. |
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SKINFAN
Hog
Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1672
Location: Sterling, Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| frankcal20 wrote: | | No. I'm just saying that I wish that we could actually trade for someone with an upside not a downside. Get someone young and cheap who has shown in the NFL he can make plays. I don't thing thats too hard. |
There is no such thing, it's like a catch 22... Young, Productive, Cheap... Pick two. |
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