Small handguns..

Wanna talk about politics, your favorite hockey team... vegetarian recipes?
**LPJ**
Posts: 6385
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:12 am
Location: Langley Park, MD *Tick Tock*

Small handguns..

Postby langleyparkjoe » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:54 am

Is the Glock 19 the best small handgun or is there one that packs a big punch and possibly cost less while keeping good quality?
Just wondered if anyone had an opinion.. thanks.
Hog Bowl I Champion (2009)
Hog Bowl II Champion 2010- Cappster
Hog Bowl III Champion 2011- DarthMonk
Hog Bowl IV Champion 2012- Deadskins
Hog Bowl V Champion 2013- DarthMonk

DC Area, I support you.. Unconditionally
When I die, remember me as one loyal S.O.B.!

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:56 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Hooligan » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:59 am

"Best" is pretty subjective when it comes to guns.

What do you plan to use it for? Indoor range? Concealed carry? Competition?

Do you want a thumb safety?

Do you want a striker-fire trigger like Glock?

What caliber do you want?
"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."

**LPJ**
Posts: 6385
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:12 am
Location: Langley Park, MD *Tick Tock*

Re: Small handguns..

Postby langleyparkjoe » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:14 pm

Something for the house.. couple break-ins in surrounding areas have me kind of paranoid right now. I have a dog but I think at best my Lab would lick the person to death. lol.
Thumb safety would be nice.. definitely love the striker-fire trigger.
As for caliber, as long as it does the job ultimately I'm ok with. Would love for the person to not be able to get away if hit (if that makes a difference).
I shouldn't have said "best", you're absolutely right bro cuz not all will fit everyone's preference.
Hog Bowl I Champion (2009)
Hog Bowl II Champion 2010- Cappster
Hog Bowl III Champion 2011- DarthMonk
Hog Bowl IV Champion 2012- Deadskins
Hog Bowl V Champion 2013- DarthMonk

DC Area, I support you.. Unconditionally
When I die, remember me as one loyal S.O.B.!

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:56 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Hooligan » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:30 pm

I think you should find a local range with rentals and try different models.

If you like that style of trigger and want a thumb safety, try the Smith & Wesson M&P series, the Springfield XD series, or a Ruger. They're offered in 9mm, .40, and .45 caliber. Beretta is good quality, but uses a different trigger and safety/decocker switch. I personally wouldn't rely on the 1911-style pistols due to the small magazine and being sometimes finicky.

You live in Maryland? Do you guys have magazine size limits down there? Can you buy hollow-point ammo?
"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."

**LPJ**
Posts: 6385
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:12 am
Location: Langley Park, MD *Tick Tock*

Re: Small handguns..

Postby langleyparkjoe » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:10 pm

Wow, every single one you named were all mentioned to me as very reliable.
As for the mag-size limits I'm not sure but I know that hollow-points are illegal.. or at least they were some years ago since they were labelled as "cop-killers"
Hog Bowl I Champion (2009)
Hog Bowl II Champion 2010- Cappster
Hog Bowl III Champion 2011- DarthMonk
Hog Bowl IV Champion 2012- Deadskins
Hog Bowl V Champion 2013- DarthMonk

DC Area, I support you.. Unconditionally
When I die, remember me as one loyal S.O.B.!

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:56 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Hooligan » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:09 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:As for the mag-size limits I'm not sure but I know that hollow-points are illegal.. or at least they were some years ago since they were labelled as "cop-killers"


Wikipedia tells me you guys in Maryland have a semi-auto magazine limit of 10, which is bullcrap and worse than we have in NJ. You have my pity.

Since you're unfortunately limited to 10 rounds, I suggest you look at .45 caliber full-size handguns. One of the biggest benefits of a smaller caliber such as 9mm is that more rounds can be loaded for the same volume and weight as .45. Maryland's magazine limit makes this point moot, however. Since your max is 10, regardless of caliber, I'd rather have 8 .45s than 10 9mm.

One big pro of smaller 9mm vs .45 is less recoil, but since we're talking about a full size home-defense handgun, it's my personal belief that the size and weight of the gun will help manage recoil and soften the .45 enough to make the 9mm's advantage negligible. Recoil is more of a factor in smaller, lightweight concealable guns.

If indeed you can't purchase hollowpoints, I wouldn't touch anything smaller than a .45. Ball is inferior to hollowpoints on soft targets, so you'd need to shoot the largest bullet possible to make a big hole, especially with the 10 round limit.

Personally, I'm not sold on .40, which is a compromise between 9mm and .45. I haven't shot it much, but it seems to be a lesser .45 that costs just as much. Others may be able to give you more info on it. Shoot it and see. YMMV
"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."

the 'mudge
Posts: 14639
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Countertrey » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:18 am

I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 1911... any 9mm increases the chances that the criminal is getting a second chance. A .45 increases the chances that the dude is not getting up... at home defense ranges, accuracy is not necessarily an issue... you don't have to be center mass with a .45.
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:56 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Hooligan » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:02 pm

Countertrey wrote:I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 1911... any 9mm increases the chances that the criminal is getting a second chance. A .45 increases the chances that the dude is not getting up... at home defense ranges, accuracy is not necessarily an issue... you don't have to be center mass with a .45.


With the magazine limit he has to work with, I agree with you on using .45 or at least .40 if at all possible. I still stand by there being pros and cons for both 9mm and .45 that make one better than the other in certain situations.
"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."

the 'mudge
Posts: 14639
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Countertrey » Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:49 pm

Hooligan wrote:
Countertrey wrote:I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 1911... any 9mm increases the chances that the criminal is getting a second chance. A .45 increases the chances that the dude is not getting up... at home defense ranges, accuracy is not necessarily an issue... you don't have to be center mass with a .45.


With the magazine limit he has to work with, I agree with you on using .45 or at least .40 if at all possible. I still stand by there being pros and cons for both 9mm and .45 that make one better than the other in certain situations.
BTW... the DoD is currently looking to replace the current 9mm's in the arsenal, largely due to the lack of knock down power... but also due to issues with reliability. They are publishing the requirements this week.
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:56 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Hooligan » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:59 pm

Countertrey wrote:BTW... the DoD is currently looking to replace the current 9mm's in the arsenal, largely due to the lack of knock down power... but also due to issues with reliability. They are publishing the requirements this week.


I think they could solve the "stopping power" issue by issuing hollowpoint ammo, but they're still bound to the Hague convention or whatever other nonsensical agreement that rule originated from.

IMHO, with full metal jacketed bullets, they need a rugged .45 built in the U.S. That means backtracking to the 1911 platform or adapting to a newer one. H&K is great, but are they built here? I'd lean toward Springfield or Smith & Wesson for the factory support. I'd like to think they'd take care of our guys.
"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."

the 'mudge
Posts: 14639
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Countertrey » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:40 pm

Hooligan wrote:
Countertrey wrote:BTW... the DoD is currently looking to replace the current 9mm's in the arsenal, largely due to the lack of knock down power... but also due to issues with reliability. They are publishing the requirements this week.


I think they could solve the "stopping power" issue by issuing hollowpoint ammo, but they're still bound to the Hague convention or whatever other nonsensical agreement that rule originated from.
... unfortunately, the conventions on land warfare moot that... the reality is, either one... .45 Ball or a 9mm HP will create a hole that is not compatible with life... but, it is what it is. I'm still partial to the heft and feel of a 1911. sooo...

IMHO, with full metal jacketed bullets, they need a rugged .45 built in the U.S. That means backtracking to the 1911 platform or adapting to a newer one. H&K is great, but are they built here? I'd lean toward Springfield or Smith & Wesson for the factory support. I'd like to think they'd take care of our guys.

... I certainly don't have any objections here. BTW, H&K does have the capacity to produce arms start to finish in the US... I think their plant is in Columbus, GA. They are known for creative thinking and practical innovation. They are certainly capable. Doesn't matter though... this will be an open competition... you can bet that several companies will offer 1911 redo's... but I'll bet H&K gets creative.
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:56 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Hooligan » Thu Jul 24, 2014 1:24 pm

H&K is definitely in the running, then. Of course we're also talking about a government contract, meaning they need to price accordingly which may hurt their chances compared to S&W and Springfield. Maybe even Ruger will throw their hat in, too?

Back on track... have you been to the range yet, Langley?
"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."

the 'mudge
Posts: 14639
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Curmudgeon Corner, Maine

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Countertrey » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:57 pm

Hooligan wrote:Back on track... have you been to the range yet, Langley?


Interpretation: "Did you shoot a .45? How's your right thumb and wrist?"
"That's a clown question, bro"
- - - - - - - - - - Bryce Harper, DC Statesman
"But Oz never did give nothing to the Tin Man
That he didn't, didn't already have"
- - - - - - - - - - Dewey Bunnell, America

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:56 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Small handguns..

Postby Hooligan » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:42 pm

Countertrey wrote:
Hooligan wrote:Back on track... have you been to the range yet, Langley?


Interpretation: "Did you shoot a .45? How's your right thumb and wrist?"


I want to go to the range now. I have a S&W 4506 that I haven't fired yet.
"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."

DarthMonk
Posts: 4432
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:58 pm

Re: Small handguns..

Postby DarthMonk » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:28 pm

Countertrey wrote:
Hooligan wrote:Back on track... have you been to the range yet, Langley?


Interpretation: "Did you shoot a .45? How's your right thumb and wrist?"


... or your face if you held it like this:

Image
Hog Bowl III, V Champion (2011, 2013)

Hognostication Champion (2011, 2013)


Scalp 'em, Swamp 'em,
We will take 'em big score!
Read 'em, Weep 'em Touchdown,
We want heap more!

Return to The Lounge