Pierre Garcon

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:48 am

I'm concerned about the offensive line because of what I saw last season and what has been done to address that - what happened before that is not going to help me feel that this O line will be a big improvement over last season's group

IMO - the O was ranked #5 in 2012 because defenses were not well prepared for what we were doing

Jay & Scott are not going to have a gimmicky offense or game plan like Mike and Kyle utilized in 2012

I agree that having great talent at the skill positions helps an offense

but

I just think it takes time to build an effective O line when we really need to replace 4 players
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:11 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I'm concerned about the offensive line because of what I saw last season and what has been done to address that - what happened before that is not going to help me feel that this O line will be a big improvement over last season's group

IMO - the O was ranked #5 in 2012 because defenses were not well prepared for what we were doing

Jay & Scott are not going to have a gimmicky offense or game plan like Mike and Kyle utilized in 2012

I agree that having great talent at the skill positions helps an offense

but

I just think it takes time to build an effective O line when we really need to replace 4 players


Riggo's right, that we require an elite offensive line to have a top offense is just factually wrong. Obviously the better it is the more it helps, but top offenses are often achieved with OK lines. Now a bad line is a detriment and they can undo our offense with being really bad, but we can still have an exceptional offense with an adequate line as many top offenses have done.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:45 pm

I am only concerned because the line last season was so bad - I'll agree it's hard to imagine that the line will be that bad again

to think we're looking at a top 5 offense this season is just a stretch to me
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby Countertrey » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:13 pm

While it goes both ways... a Great O-line can make an average qb look fantastic... see Mark Rypien, Joe Theisman, Jay Schoeder, Doug Williams... it is much less common for a great quarterback to make an average line look fantastic. Not saying it doesn't happen, but most often, it's pretty clear that the quarterback was doing more of it on his own.

I will be pleased with any improvement in our line play this year.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:25 pm

I actually think the exact opposite SJ.. it'd be a stretch for us NOT to be a top 5 Offense.

Griffs health does more than just improve mobility to get away, it also makes edge rushers have to think twice and can't over pursue leaving him a lane to run down.. or that they have to have a lb spy instead of blitz.. It also means he is practicing this off-season instead of rehabilitating. He will have improved foot work, hold the ball higher and better vision. That all will translate to a quicker release and needing less time in the pocket. Lets add to that the fact that the Online of last year was hurt more by our wrs inability to get any separation. Lets be honest our wr core was weak using number 6 guys as a 2 or 3!
The line was not great last year but there is more to it than just oh we need to replace the lot of em (save Tw). Garçon broke the Skin's single season reception record largely due to the fact that he was the ONLY reliable target 90% of the time. If you want to bash the line you have got to watch some replays or recall that when Robert DID have time, he had no where to go with the ball!

-a healthy Griffin improves last years linemen
-a formidable wr core greatly helps last years linemen
-having used two picks on linemen and 2 through free agency we also help last years line with depth and hopefully a new starter or two

I think there is a lot more to be excited about than you think SJ. With Griff ever nearing his big payday this staff wants to bring home the trophy NOW, not later... and I think we have made some great moves this off-season to make an honest run at it. Djax and the new dbs are all great to have, but the biggest bang for our buck is the new leadership and the rapport the have already built.

Be excited brah, its not 2005 anymore!!!
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:36 pm

I think there is little chance that we don't see a better performance from everyone - coaches and players

the O line needs 4 new players - now, it would be hard not to be as bad as last year, it will still take time to gel

we shall soon see

I'm hoping for great improvement but that's what we Redskins fans are used to - wishing & hoping
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:44 pm

Yay I hear Ya... we always are the off-season champs...
I disagree that we need to replace 4 starters to have a "good" line.
with everything I mentioned I think the current line will be improved... now if Long and Mosses are better than our current starters there is half of your wish.. plus we added 2 lineman via free agency right? I believe depth looks better and we will have new starters and a shuffling of the current ones.
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:58 pm

the Redskins were blitzed more times than any other team last year - the reason being, the O line was horrible

we had a WR set records for catches and yet we only won 3 games

I want an effective offense not a statistically great offense

stats are for fantasy football not real football
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

HAIL


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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby riggofan » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:33 pm

SkinsJock wrote:the Redskins were blitzed more times than any other team last year - the reason being, the O line was horrible

we had a WR set records for catches and yet we only won 3 games

I want an effective offense not a statistically great offense

stats are for fantasy football not real football


And yet you're prattling about some stat that doesn't mean what you're saying it means. lol.

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:19 pm

So our line sucked so it was blitzed more than any other.. or BECAUSE it was??
Think about that one.

Garçon set a record because he was the only threat... our lime looked worse because of that same fact. If he was double or triple teamed, Bob had no where to go with the ball since our wide outs struggled to get open.

Your actually helping my case.. thank you
#21 forever in our hearts
...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby Deadskins » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:30 am

SkinsJock wrote:the Redskins were blitzed more times than any other team last year - the reason being, the O line was horrible

Um, no. We were the least blitzed team the year before with the exact same line. It's the inability of the QB to make defenses pay that was the difference.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:34 am

Deadskins wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:the Redskins were blitzed more times than any other team last year - the reason being, the O line was horrible

Um, no. We were the least blitzed team the year before with the exact same line. It's the inability of the QB to make defenses pay that was the difference.


No! - where do you get your information?

and Pierre combined with that same QB to set a franchise record for receptions ...

we need a lot of things and the O line is not the biggest problem but it's a concern, IMO

RG3 will be healthy and the weapons he has will be a lot more effective when we find a way to replace 4 of the starters from last season with players that might have a chance of playing for any other NFL franchise - last season's O line sucked most of the year - offensive stats don't show that we were playing behind almost all year long

we're going to be OK offensively - IMO, it will take more than 1 season to be a top 5 offense

however

I'm a lot more confident in Scott and Jay than I was with Kyle and Mike who won 3 games and went 0-6 in the NFC East
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby Deadskins » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:31 am

SkinsJock wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:the Redskins were blitzed more times than any other team last year - the reason being, the O line was horrible

Um, no. We were the least blitzed team the year before with the exact same line. It's the inability of the QB to make defenses pay that was the difference.


No! - where do you get your information?

So, you don't agree that if defenses aren't made to pay for blitzing, then they won't stop doing it on their own? RGIII's threat as a runner, and getting the ball out ahead of the rush is what stops defenses from blitzing. My guess is that you're going to think this same line has magically returned to their 2012 form by midway through this season. :roll:
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:34 am

NO! - I pointed out that the offense last season was blitzed more than any other and you said "Um, no.." ... :lol:
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:41 am

it's hard to imagine that even if last year's O line was on the field this season it would be as bad ...

Scott and Jay will not have the same game planning and will have RG3 better prepared to run a pro style offense and not the gimmicky stuff we all saw last season - they will better utilize all of the players on offense - RG3 will get an opportunity to progress as an NFL style QB and not be an extension of his college playing as Mike & Kyle had him playing

I just don't see them being a top 5 offense is all
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

HAIL


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