Pierre Garcon

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby riggofan » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:51 am

Deadskins wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:the Redskins were blitzed more times than any other team last year - the reason being, the O line was horrible

Um, no. We were the least blitzed team the year before with the exact same line. It's the inability of the QB to make defenses pay that was the difference.


EXACTLY. I don't know if we were the least blitzed team or not in 2012, but its pretty clear that the wounded RGIII in 2013 greatly affected the offensive line. And not just the fact that he wasn't a running threat. He wasn't throwing especially well last year either.

SJ is complaining about stats and is now pointing to RGIII/Garcon's performance last year as evidence that they were somehow good? Huh? The only reason Garcon set a reception record last year is that he was basically the only guy RGIII had to throw it to. Not to mention the number of games we were down three or four TDs and had no choice but to throw the ball all over the place. Good grief, man. We all watched those games.

RG3 will be healthy and the weapons he has will be a lot more effective when we find a way to replace 4 of the starters from last season with players that might have a chance of playing for any other NFL franchise - last season's O line sucked most of the year - offensive stats don't show that we were playing behind almost all year long


We just replaced Will Montgomery. He was immediately signed by the Broncos and competing for a starting job. Weirdly there are a top five defense. Go figure.

Anyway, SJ might be completely right that the o-line isn't up to the job this year. I just think there is a lot more to it than just "we need to replace everybody but Trent". The guys we have can play better and can be put in a position to be successful with better QB play, better WR play, better special teams and defense play.

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:38 am

I'm going to wait and see

I'm not "right" or "wrong" - I'm just concerned because no QB could have done much behind the line we had last year

I'm glad you guys are OK with it - I'm not ...
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby DarthMonk » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:39 am

SkinsJock wrote:NO! - I pointed out that the offense last season was blitzed more than any other and you said "Um, no.." ... :lol:


The "Um, no" was not about the fact that we were the most blitzed team last year ... it was about your reason. You said it was because the line was horrible. The Deadman is saying that was not the reason. His evidence is that the same line was the least blitzed a year earlier. The Deadman's REASON for the extra blitzing was the inability of the QB to make those defenses pay for their high blitz rate.

Did I read that right, Deadman?

Interestingly, it's not necessarily about mobility. See P. Manning.

Aaron Rogers does not have a very good line.

Chip Kelly says every sack is the QB's fault. We may not agree but that is how one coach sees it.

Having said all that, I'd sure like to see our line get better.

BTW - Jackson is our Z and Garcon is our X.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby riggofan » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:48 am

SkinsJock wrote:I'm going to wait and see

I'm not "right" or "wrong" - I'm just concerned because no QB could have done much behind the line we had last year


Let me fix that statement for you:

"I'm just concerned because no QB could have done much behind the line we had last year except when RGIII did it the year before."

There you go, all better.

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:14 am

like I said - I'm glad that you guys think the O line is going to be OK

based on the effort put forth by the O line last season - I think we need to replace everyone except TW and that will take time

we'll get an early indiction in a couple of weeks :lol:
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby Deadskins » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:30 am

SkinsJock wrote:NO! - I pointed out that the offense last season was blitzed more than any other and you said "Um, no.." ... :lol:

Um, no. I said, "Um, no." to you reasoning that we were the most blitzed due to the O-line being so bad. I then gave you imperical evidence showing your assertion to be unfounded.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby Deadskins » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:34 am

DarthMonk wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:NO! - I pointed out that the offense last season was blitzed more than any other and you said "Um, no.." ... :lol:


The "Um, no" was not about the fact that we were the most blitzed team last year ... it was about your reason. You said it was because the line was horrible. The Deadman is saying that was not the reason. His evidence is that the same line was the least blitzed a year earlier. The Deadman's REASON for the extra blitzing was the inability of the QB to make those defenses pay for their high blitz rate.

Did I read that right, Deadman?

Interestingly, it's not necessarily about mobility. See P. Manning.

Aaron Rogers does not have a very good line.

Chip Kelly says every sack is the QB's fault. We may not agree but that is how one coach sees it.

Having said all that, I'd sure like to see our line get better.

BTW - Jackson is our Z and Garcon is our X.

Yes, you are correct. You are also correct in saying that the QB making the defense pay for blitzing, does not necessarily mean scrambling. It can mean getting the ball out faster, and being accurate in the face of pressure, while making the correct read.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby langleyparkjoe » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:00 pm

OLine was crap in '12 and in '13.. Only difference was that RG3 was beastmode in '12 and made our OLine look "ok".
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:08 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:O Line was crap in '12 and in '13.. Only difference was that RG3 was beastmode in '12 and made our O Line look "ok".


thanks - you can take it from here ...

the good news is that Mike and Kyle are gone - these guys will do a better job

and, IMO - they will shortly replace everyone except Trent ... :lol:
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:06 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:O Line was crap in '12 and in '13.. Only difference was that RG3 was beastmode in '12 and made our O Line look "ok".


thanks - you can take it from here ...

the good news is that Mike and Kyle are gone - these guys will do a better job

and, IMO - they will shortly replace everyone except Trent ... :lol:


Umm.. lpj is saying exactly what we have been.. RG3 makes the line better when he is 100%.. better play from our wr core will help the line as well.
While the unit needs to improve I think we have more to work with then just TW. Hopefully our Rooks can contribute and maybe one of the fa signings fights for a starting spot. At the very least I see our depth being much better then it was 2 years ago
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby yupchagee » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:54 pm

SkinsJock wrote:the Redskins were blitzed more times than any other team last year - the reason being, the O line was horrible

we had a WR set records for catches and yet we only won 3 games

I want an effective offense not a statistically great offense

stats are for fantasy football not real football



This puts the "non" in non sequiter. There is less need to blitz a really bad OL, a 4 man rush will be plenty.
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:16 pm

Common sense is uncommon on the internet guys... lets take it easy
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...and yet ANOTHER record setting performance by "RG3 the third"!!!!
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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:32 am

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Common sense is uncommon on the internet guys ... lets take it easy


on that we certainly agree - back at ya bro :lol:
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby riggofan » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:33 am

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:
langleyparkjoe wrote:O Line was crap in '12 and in '13.. Only difference was that RG3 was beastmode in '12 and made our O Line look "ok".


thanks - you can take it from here ...

the good news is that Mike and Kyle are gone - these guys will do a better job

and, IMO - they will shortly replace everyone except Trent ... :lol:


Umm.. lpj is saying exactly what we have been.. RG3 makes the line better when he is 100%..


lol All I can do is shake my head.

When yuchagee wrote: "RGIII's health should help the O-line."

SJ says: "How does that work exactly?" :shock:

Now LPJ says: "Only difference was that RG3 was beastmode in '12 and made our O Line look "ok"."

And SJ is in applauding the wisdom of his statement like it just proved everything he has been saying. :roll:

Moving on...

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Re: Pierre Garcon

Postby SkinsJock » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:00 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:O Line was crap in '12 and in '13 .. Only difference was that RG3 was beastmode in '12 and made our O Line look "ok".


I'll agree with that - hopefully the line will be better than "OK" this season + I'm looking forward to it being a lot better in 2015 :D

I have no doubt that RG3 will be great - the O line is a concern (maybe just to me) but it will get better with time :twisted:
Getting our QB back will help a lot but we still have a lot of issues to address

Players and coaches need to believe that they can be successful - they are not playing with that attitude - big changes are coming

HAIL


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