Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby riggofan » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:40 am

grampi wrote:
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Is there a forum (not in the online message board sense) that we can start a petition AGAINST the name change? Redskins nation will rise iPhone and even football fans in general. In a democracy, shouldn't the majority have a voice? If there is a current petition a done knows about I'd like to get my support in so post up!


There is no such thing as majority rules anymore...in fact, in today's PC world, it's the majority that's expected to make concessions...


You mean like when the majority of people in Alabama wanted to keep black kids from attending white high schools? When the majority of people in the south wanted to maintain segregation? Do I dare bring up that a majority of Germans wanted to rid themselves of Jewish people?

I'm not defending the name complaint, but this comment about "majority rules" is brainless. There is nothing about being in the majority that makes a person right. Its a lame thing to cry about.

PC, PC, PC, boo hoo. Half of what people complain about as being PC just strikes me as good manners and common decency.
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:08 pm

Um... I was just saying there should be vote.
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby grampi » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:52 am

riggofan wrote:
grampi wrote:
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Is there a forum (not in the online message board sense) that we can start a petition AGAINST the name change? Redskins nation will rise iPhone and even football fans in general. In a democracy, shouldn't the majority have a voice? If there is a current petition a done knows about I'd like to get my support in so post up!


There is no such thing as majority rules anymore...in fact, in today's PC world, it's the majority that's expected to make concessions...


You mean like when the majority of people in Alabama wanted to keep black kids from attending white high schools? When the majority of people in the south wanted to maintain segregation? Do I dare bring up that a majority of Germans wanted to rid themselves of Jewish people?

I'm not defending the name complaint, but this comment about "majority rules" is brainless. There is nothing about being in the majority that makes a person right. Its a lame thing to cry about.

PC, PC, PC, boo hoo. Half of what people complain about as being PC just strikes me as good manners and common decency.


What do any of your examples have to do with a small group of crybabies forcing a team to change their name? There's no common decency in that...talk about a bunch of crybabies...boo hoo...

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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:19 am

the point is that there are some Native Americans that feel the name should be changed and they are trying to make a bigger issue of it by pulling the 'discriminatory' card - there are more Native Americans that do not feel it is a derogatory term but their opinions don't seem to matter to those that feel it is

all these other 'examples' have no bearing on this at all - all that matters is that the term Redskins when used in context is not a derogatory word at all
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:50 am

riggofan wrote:
grampi wrote:
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Is there a forum (not in the online message board sense) that we can start a petition AGAINST the name change? Redskins nation will rise iPhone and even football fans in general. In a democracy, shouldn't the majority have a voice? If there is a current petition a done knows about I'd like to get my support in so post up!


There is no such thing as majority rules anymore...in fact, in today's PC world, it's the majority that's expected to make concessions...


You mean like when the majority of people in Alabama wanted to keep black kids from attending white high schools? When the majority of people in the south wanted to maintain segregation? Do I dare bring up that a majority of Germans wanted to rid themselves of Jewish people?

I'm not defending the name complaint, but this comment about "majority rules" is brainless. There is nothing about being in the majority that makes a person right. Its a lame thing to cry about.

PC, PC, PC, boo hoo. Half of what people complain about as being PC just strikes me as good manners and common decency.


Those are pretty ridiculous comparisons to the majority not being offended by a sports team nickname.
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby riggofan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:28 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Those are pretty ridiculous comparisons to the majority not being offended by a sports team nickname.


Sure, I completely agree with you. I'm just responding to the post above about "majority rules". We do a lot of things in this country to protect a minority of people that the majority may not agree with. Being a majority does not always == being correct. Do you disagree with that?

If you want to support the Redskins name then make your case and tell the world why its not offensive. Crying that you should get your way because you're "in the majority" is a b.s. argument.
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby riggofan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:30 am

SkinsJock wrote:the point is that there are some Native Americans that feel the name should be changed and they are trying to make a bigger issue of it by pulling the 'discriminatory' card - there are more Native Americans that do not feel it is a derogatory term but their opinions don't seem to matter to those that feel it is


Glad to know you have your finger so firmly on the pulse of Native Americans. lol.

That liberal lion John McCain seems to disagree with your assessment btw:

“We have many local tribes in my state of Arizona, and they come to me and tell me its offensive,” McCain said, via USA Today. “So if its offensive, then why don’t we take that into consideration? One of the most darkest chapters in American history is our relations with the Native Americans. When an advanced civilization collides with a less advanced one, really terrible things happen. And it’s probably the worst chapter in American history, as we went west and became the nation that we are, we really did some terrible things. And many of our Native Americans are very sensitive because of our history.

“So my view, if I were the owner of the team, I’d call them together and have a dialogue with them and I would probably change the name.”


Apparently he actually speaks to Native Americans btw. I'm curious to know how many you have spoken with.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... gton-name/
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby riggofan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:41 am

grampi wrote:What do any of your examples have to do with a small group of crybabies forcing a team to change their name? There's no common decency in that...talk about a bunch of crybabies...boo hoo...


Its hilarious to read your crybaby posts complaining about other crybabies. Aggrieved old white guys are the best.

I'll tell you why I think the Redskins name issue is more a matter of common decency than of racism. So your people have driven the natives from their land, slaughtered and massacred them at times and corralled them on to "reservations". Maybe its not the coolest thing to "honor" those people by making them the mascots of your professional football teams. Not the biggest deal in the world either, but its still pretty ignorant.

Feel free to get your panties twisted up about what I wrote. I don't personally care whether the Redskins change their name or not. I'm just not so blinded by the fact that I'm a Redskins fan that I can't consider it objectively. And I don't feel like I'm personally being called a racist just because some people (with nothing better to do apparently) are taking issue with our team name. It is what it is.
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby Deadskins » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:53 am

riggofan wrote:That liberal lion John McCain seems to disagree with your assessment btw:

“We have many local tribes in my state of Arizona, and they come to me and tell me its offensive,” McCain said, via USA Today. “So if its offensive, then why don’t we take that into consideration? One of the most darkest chapters in American history is our relations with the Native Americans. When an advanced civilization collides with a less advanced one, really terrible things happen. And it’s probably the worst chapter in American history, as we went west and became the nation that we are, we really did some terrible things. And many of our Native Americans are very sensitive because of our history.

“So my view, if I were the owner of the team, I’d call them together and have a dialogue with them and I would probably change the name.”

So, is JM saying that changing the name will right the wrongs done to American Indians? How about some legislation that actually does something to help them, rather than paying lip service. How about the US government actually living up to the terms of their treaties?
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby riggofan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:56 am

Deadskins wrote:So, is JM saying that changing the name will right the wrongs done to American Indians? How about some legislation that actually does something to help them, rather than paying lip service. How about the US government actually living up to the terms of their treaties?


Why not both?

I always like this argument btw. Its like saying we can't stop using the word "colored" unless we also agree to reparations.
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby Deadskins » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:03 am

riggofan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:So, is JM saying that changing the name will right the wrongs done to American Indians? How about some legislation that actually does something to help them, rather than paying lip service. How about the US government actually living up to the terms of their treaties?


Why not both?

I always like this argument btw. Its like saying we can't stop using the word "colored" unless we also agree to reparations.

Um no. It's like calling a politician a do nothing blowhard, because he's setting up a straw man so that he can look like he cares about Indians.
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby riggofan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:35 am

Deadskins wrote:Um no. It's like calling a politician a do nothing blowhard, because he's setting up a straw man so that he can look like he cares about Indians.


This is why there will never be a real discussion about the Redskins name. Its all complaining about people's motives, never really addressing what they're saying. Too bad.
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:00 am

riggofan wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Those are pretty ridiculous comparisons to the majority not being offended by a sports team nickname.


Sure, I completely agree with you. I'm just responding to the post above about "majority rules". We do a lot of things in this country to protect a minority of people that the majority may not agree with. Being a majority does not always == being correct. Do you disagree with that?

If you want to support the Redskins name then make your case and tell the world why its not offensive. Crying that you should get your way because you're "in the majority" is a b.s. argument.


In general, I don't believe in the majority or the minority, I believe in the individual. If an individual is not harming anyone, they should be left alone. Majority vote doesn't justify removing their rights. Protecting a minority group doesn't justify removing rights from another individual either.

In this case, we're talking about whether a team nickname is offensive or not. "Offensive" is subjective, so while it's not a litmus test, it's actually a reasonable argument that if the majority of people are not offended by a name, then it's not offensive. The stick up their butt crowd say it's like "the n word." Well, would "the n word" poll 79% of blacks as being fine with them like "Redskins" does with Indians? Obviously not. The only way then that the minority could reasonably show that it should be taken away anyway is if they can show that the name harms them. Clearly, it doesn't. In fact since they love to be offended, it benefits them.

No matter how you slice it, comparing what is "offensive" to discrimination against blacks or the murder of Jews is preposterous and there was no reason to go there.
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:05 am

riggofan wrote:
grampi wrote:What do any of your examples have to do with a small group of crybabies forcing a team to change their name? There's no common decency in that...talk about a bunch of crybabies...boo hoo...


Its hilarious to read your crybaby posts complaining about other crybabies. Aggrieved old white guys are the best.

I'll tell you why I think the Redskins name issue is more a matter of common decency than of racism. So your people have driven the natives from their land, slaughtered and massacred them at times and corralled them on to "reservations". Maybe its not the coolest thing to "honor" those people by making them the mascots of your professional football teams. Not the biggest deal in the world either, but its still pretty ignorant.

Feel free to get your panties twisted up about what I wrote. I don't personally care whether the Redskins change their name or not. I'm just not so blinded by the fact that I'm a Redskins fan that I can't consider it objectively. And I don't feel like I'm personally being called a racist just because some people (with nothing better to do apparently) are taking issue with our team name. It is what it is.


So you're trying to have it both ways I see. You are both sympathetic to and unconcerned with people who object to the name. LOL. You have it covered in any conversation!

BTW, Indians are not forced to stay on reservations, they aren't prisoners. Just wanted to alleviate your concern about that.
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Re: Possible solution IF the team is forced to change name

Postby KazooSkinsFan » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:08 am

riggofan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Um no. It's like calling a politician a do nothing blowhard, because he's setting up a straw man so that he can look like he cares about Indians.


This is why there will never be a real discussion about the Redskins name. Its all complaining about people's motives, never really addressing what they're saying. Too bad.


OK, let's discuss motives.

Offending Indians or anyone else is not our motive as Redskins fans and it's not the motive of the Redskins organization.

Discussion over....
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