Shanahasn't and never will

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby StorminMormon86 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:48 am

As much as I don't like Mike Shanahan, Phil Simms brought up a good point on CBS. He said last year on our win streak, it was all Griffin, Griffin, Griffin. This year because Griffin's struggling, no one can mention him without mentioning Kyle or Mike in the same sentence. Unbelievable how people hold Griffin to some higher standard.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Deadskins » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:55 am

Bishop Hammer wrote:I don't see any big name DC or hot prospect coming to a defensive unit with little to no talent for a coach who only has one year left on his contract (with a real possibility of not coming back the following year).

Good point!
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:23 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:As much as I don't like Mike Shanahan, Phil Simms brought up a good point on CBS. He said last year on our win streak, it was all Griffin, Griffin, Griffin. This year because Griffin's struggling, no one can mention him without mentioning Kyle or Mike in the same sentence. Unbelievable how people hold Griffin to some higher standard.

I don't! :D

I have never been a big supporter of Mike as a HC - I think he's done a good job here with Bruce Allen in fixing the mess created by Dan Snyder but …

the offense this year has not worked because of the O line issues PLUS the changes made by Mike & Kyle in the game planning and play calling
we have all seen RG3 make a bunch of HUGE mistakes but I think a lot of that is because he is not in the comfort zone he was in last season

we have some very good players at QB, RB, TE, WR(s) and LT but the offense has not been able to consistently sustain drives :hmm:
Robert Griffin III is NOT playing as well as he can - that is a fact and I'm sure he knows he's letting his team and his coach down

ALSO - we have not had very good performances from our defense and special teams

next season, I think we're better off without Mike as HC, Kyle as OC, Haslett at DC and Burns at ST coordinator - that's just my opinion

I think Mike is back here next season because of what he's done with Bruce Allen …..


unless things get really bad on the field ….
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby StorminMormon86 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:27 am

The point was when the Skins were doing good last year, Griffin got all of the credit. Nothing was said about how genius of an OC Kyle was, or how great Shanahan groomed his offense to fit Griffin. Now that they're losing it's a whole different story. Nothing is on Griffin, everything is on the Shanahans.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby Deadskins » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:51 am

StorminMormon86 wrote:The point was when the Skins were doing good last year, Griffin got all of the credit. Nothing was said about how genius of an OC Kyle was, or how great Shanahan groomed his offense to fit Griffin.

I heard a lot of talk about the Shanahan's great work last year. I don't agree with you at all on this.
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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby gushogs » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:25 am

Coaches adapt and study. That's what everyone did during the offseason to be ready for the Skins and RG3, with the extra problem of the injury making things one dimensional. I have notice more than ever that the team only works for 1/2 a game, most of the time during garbage time. I think Mike is a great coach, his son is another thing. RG3 mentioned in the postgame interview that the Phily D seemed like they knew in advance every play. To me that says it all.

Ever since the time we got the Father + family combo for coaching staff with the Schotenhimers, I have been skeptical with families in the coaching staff. No father is going to fire his own blood, no matter how bad it gets or how many more capable options are available in the market. I was very disapointed with the new experience when it happened. This is the first time the Shannies have worked together, are they a good combo? Assuming Kyle is great, can a son go over his dad in any major decision? Not in my house!!! When Shanny won with Denver, who was in his coaching staff?
This season has been a major dissapointment for me.
HaiL,
Another year of asking for PATIENCE..., 20 yrs not long enough?????

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby hanburgerheel » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:36 am

If the Redskins continue to lose in the fashion of the last two losses...Shanny & his Seed are history, as well as Haslett. They all deserve the ax. If they continue to look as atrocious as they do in the last 2 weeks, I doubt Griffin is even on the field instead of on crutches. Either way, I'm sure Dan is considering other options at this point. 3-7 is just bad. They'd need another month like last year to change the outcome of their fate. I don't see it. I am even hoping it gets worse to prove how incompetent this staff is. I can see they are inept and lack the ability to make it work long-term. It takes more convincing for other people. Let the convincing begin.

And, props above for mentioning how daddy & sons are terrible combinations on a coaching staff. The objectivity is lost on blood.

Please find the right leaders, Dan.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby riggofan » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:28 am

Deadskins wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:The point was when the Skins were doing good last year, Griffin got all of the credit. Nothing was said about how genius of an OC Kyle was, or how great Shanahan groomed his offense to fit Griffin.

I heard a lot of talk about the Shanahan's great work last year. I don't agree with you at all on this.


Yeah I agree with DeadSkins. Kyle in particular got a lot of credit for being so innovative with how RGIII was used last year. (At least when he was winning. When we lost games, he of course was hammered for putting RGIII's health at risk. lol.) I don't know if Kyle was really innovative or not last year, but that was certainly the word out there.

That's why I have to raise an eyebrow when people are immediately calling for the OC to be fired. Not saying they're wrong, but I don't think fans are especially objective about those comments, especially after a loss.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby RayNAustin » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:10 pm

I've not been bashful in my opinion on the ShanaClan. In my view their legacy is a series of poor decisions that have undone the things they have done well. I had seen enough after year two, and it was based on remarkably poor judgement that were self inflicted wounds.

Right out of the gate, the decision to force a change to the 34 defense without the proper personnel to run that scheme caused a diversion of resources away from where they were needed ... offense. Instead of focusing on oline to give your newly aquired QB a chance to be successful, the defensive front 7 had to be reworked. McNabb ended up scrambling for his life before being benched in favor of Grossman?

Then there was the Grossman-Beck shuffle that was a comedy of errors, with the apparently forgotten "I'll stake my reputation on Beck" from Mike's own mouth. Beck wasn't an error ... he was a JOKE. A bad joke, who was then benched for the benched RG3-int.

So, the wisdom was, three bad choices at QB, necessitating a "sell the farm" trade for RG3, only to do exactly what they should not have done ... use the new Fararri as a demolition derby mobile. Result? Fararri in the shop needing major repairs, just as predicted by many. Oh how people forget stuff like using him as a receiver and him getting nailed by a safety ... Kyle the genius ... and Mike afterward sheepishly confessing "we won't be doing that again". (It was idiotic to do it in the first place), though that didn't stop them from running the tires bald, resulting in RG3 laying in a twisted heap on the ground. The decision to keep him in the Seattle game when he was clearly injured, and limping badly should have been the last decision this father-son team was allowed to screw up. Everybody knows how furious I was ....

Now we see a team that is perfoming worse than when this knucklehead took over, in spite of his repeated claims of how much more talent this team now has, compared to the one he inherited. If that's true, then it is only an even greater indictment of coaching failure ... achieving poorer results with better talent.

The results we see now supports the view that last year's success was due to a scheme that could not be sustained ... using this kid as a plow mule, masking the ineptitude of the offense in the previous two years. The necessitated switch to a more conventional style offense is now producing exactly the same lack of production that this team suffered in years 1 & 2. What's worse is the setback in RG3's development which can clearly be seen in his uncharacteristic play ... poor decisions ... inaccurate passing ... unable to establish any consistency or rythym ... looking worse than our 4th round backup, saddled with the added pressure of such high expectations based on last year's achievements.

Anyone really looking at this situation realistically should conclude that neither the Redskins or RG3 can afford another year of this type of malfeasance. It should be evident by how poorly this team is performing in ALL areas that nobody on this staff seems to have any answers .... offense, defense, special teams ... what is actually working? Alfred Morris ...they haven't found a way to screw that up yet ... but be patient ... we still have six games to run the wheels off him too.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby hanburgerheel » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:25 pm

RayNAustin wrote:I've not been bashful in my opinion on the ShanaClan. In my view their legacy is a series of poor decisions that have undone the things they have done well. I had seen enough after year two, and it was based on remarkably poor judgement that were self inflicted wounds.

Right out of the gate, the decision to force a change to the 34 defense without the proper personnel to run that scheme caused a diversion of resources away from where they were needed ... offense. Instead of focusing on oline to give your newly aquired QB a chance to be successful, the defensive front 7 had to be reworked. McNabb ended up scrambling for his life before being benched in favor of Grossman?

Then there was the Grossman-Beck shuffle that was a comedy of errors, with the apparently forgotten "I'll stake my reputation on Beck" from Mike's own mouth. Beck wasn't an error ... he was a JOKE. A bad joke, who was then benched for the benched RG3-int.

So, the wisdom was, three bad choices at QB, necessitating a "sell the farm" trade for RG3, only to do exactly what they should not have done ... use the new Fararri as a demolition derby mobile. Result? Fararri in the shop needing major repairs, just as predicted by many. Oh how people forget stuff like using him as a receiver and him getting nailed by a safety ... Kyle the genius ... and Mike afterward sheepishly confessing "we won't be doing that again". (It was idiotic to do it in the first place), though that didn't stop them from running the tires bald, resulting in RG3 laying in a twisted heap on the ground. The decision to keep him in the Seattle game when he was clearly injured, and limping badly should have been the last decision this father-son team was allowed to screw up. Everybody knows how furious I was ....

Now we see a team that is perfoming worse than when this knucklehead took over, in spite of his repeated claims of how much more talent this team now has, compared to the one he inherited. If that's true, then it is only an even greater indictment of coaching failure ... achieving poorer results with better talent.

The results we see now supports the view that last year's success was due to a scheme that could not be sustained ... using this kid as a plow mule, masking the ineptitude of the offense in the previous two years. The necessitated switch to a more conventional style offense is now producing exactly the same lack of production that this team suffered in years 1 & 2. What's worse is the setback in RG3's development which can clearly be seen in his uncharacteristic play ... poor decisions ... inaccurate passing ... unable to establish any consistency or rythym ... looking worse than our 4th round backup, saddled with the added pressure of such high expectations based on last year's achievements.

Anyone really looking at this situation realistically should conclude that neither the Redskins or RG3 can afford another year of this type of malfeasance. It should be evident by how poorly this team is performing in ALL areas that nobody on this staff seems to have any answers .... offense, defense, special teams ... what is actually working? Alfred Morris ...they haven't found a way to screw that up yet ... but be patient ... we still have six games to run the wheels off him too.



Realistic and very astute! Thank you!

It is a train wreck. If ShananSon ruin Griffin- which they almost have? They may as well open a restaurant chain together, because no NFL owner would touch them. I hope that Snyder and Allen see how bad Mike & Son are. My fear is that they have convinced themselves he will right the ship. It's so clear that it is a failed experiment. I realize it's hard as a fan to admit, but you're a lot better off if you do.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby DaSkinz Baby » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:51 pm

For anyone that knows Football or has a Football IQ, they know that Mike Shanahan basically was at the right place at the right time. In San Francisco he had Steve Young, in Denver Elway. Can anyone tell me what he did on his own? His run blocking was more Alex Gibbs and Bobby Turner more than Shanahan. Let's also admit pretty much the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I don't know who or why people thought that his son was such a hot shot up and coming coordinator in Houston, they didn't run back when he was there and he left to come here and Houston's offense exceeded and got better! I won't even go into Keith Burns, a Shanahan hire, or his choice to destroy a fourth ranked defense that WE HAD when he was hired, but to choose that he wants a 3-4, and not have 3-4 players and to continue to draft 4-3 players to turn them into Hybrid linebackers is again foolish, add in a Jim Haslett who couldn't make it in New Orleans or St. Louis and this entire experiment should be blown up. I actually think this entire coaching staff is the worst in the league and I hope that Daniel Snyder will fire the entire staff.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby RayNAustin » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:02 pm

hanburgerheel wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:I've not been bashful in my opinion on the ShanaClan. In my view their legacy is a series of poor decisions that have undone the things they have done well. I had seen enough after year two, and it was based on remarkably poor judgement that were self inflicted wounds.

Right out of the gate, the decision to force a change to the 34 defense without the proper personnel to run that scheme caused a diversion of resources away from where they were needed ... offense. Instead of focusing on oline to give your newly aquired QB a chance to be successful, the defensive front 7 had to be reworked. McNabb ended up scrambling for his life before being benched in favor of Grossman?

Then there was the Grossman-Beck shuffle that was a comedy of errors, with the apparently forgotten "I'll stake my reputation on Beck" from Mike's own mouth. Beck wasn't an error ... he was a JOKE. A bad joke, who was then benched for the benched RG3-int.

So, the wisdom was, three bad choices at QB, necessitating a "sell the farm" trade for RG3, only to do exactly what they should not have done ... use the new Fararri as a demolition derby mobile. Result? Fararri in the shop needing major repairs, just as predicted by many. Oh how people forget stuff like using him as a receiver and him getting nailed by a safety ... Kyle the genius ... and Mike afterward sheepishly confessing "we won't be doing that again". (It was idiotic to do it in the first place), though that didn't stop them from running the tires bald, resulting in RG3 laying in a twisted heap on the ground. The decision to keep him in the Seattle game when he was clearly injured, and limping badly should have been the last decision this father-son team was allowed to screw up. Everybody knows how furious I was ....

Now we see a team that is perfoming worse than when this knucklehead took over, in spite of his repeated claims of how much more talent this team now has, compared to the one he inherited. If that's true, then it is only an even greater indictment of coaching failure ... achieving poorer results with better talent.

The results we see now supports the view that last year's success was due to a scheme that could not be sustained ... using this kid as a plow mule, masking the ineptitude of the offense in the previous two years. The necessitated switch to a more conventional style offense is now producing exactly the same lack of production that this team suffered in years 1 & 2. What's worse is the setback in RG3's development which can clearly be seen in his uncharacteristic play ... poor decisions ... inaccurate passing ... unable to establish any consistency or rythym ... looking worse than our 4th round backup, saddled with the added pressure of such high expectations based on last year's achievements.

Anyone really looking at this situation realistically should conclude that neither the Redskins or RG3 can afford another year of this type of malfeasance. It should be evident by how poorly this team is performing in ALL areas that nobody on this staff seems to have any answers .... offense, defense, special teams ... what is actually working? Alfred Morris ...they haven't found a way to screw that up yet ... but be patient ... we still have six games to run the wheels off him too.



Realistic and very astute! Thank you!

It is a train wreck. If ShananSon ruin Griffin- which they almost have? They may as well open a restaurant chain together, because no NFL owner would touch them. I hope that Snyder and Allen see how bad Mike & Son are. My fear is that they have convinced themselves he will right the ship. It's so clear that it is a failed experiment. I realize it's hard as a fan to admit, but you're a lot better off if you do.


Right now, and I doubt the wisdom of this coach to make the proper decision, is to sit RG3 for the remainder of the year to avoid the only possible outcome worse than what is already guaranteed. With a leaky oline, and a young QB struggling, having him in there and reinjuring that knee would be devastating. Give him the rest of the season and off season to fully heal ... no return until he can safely do so without a brace is the only wise choice at this stage. He's forcing and pressing, and for what? Ego? Wiser cooler heads must prevail.

Give Cousins the work ... see what you have in him, and allow him the opportunity to either solidify his place on the team, or build trade value. Assure Robert that this is in his and the Redskins best long term interests ... that to keep him in under the current circumstances is too much risk for no good reason. The season is lost ... there are no miracle comebacks in the cards this time around, and to risk reinjury is beyond foolish.

He's not going to like it. He'll just have to live with it. It's the only smart choice they have, which is probably why they won't choose to do it.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby riggofan » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:23 pm

RayNAustin wrote:Then there was the Grossman-Beck shuffle that was a comedy of errors, with the apparently forgotten "I'll stake my reputation on Beck" from Mike's own mouth. Beck wasn't an error ... he was a JOKE. A bad joke, who was then benched for the benched RG3-int.


Plenty of fair points in there, but I just completely disagree about Grossman-Beck. IMO there really wasn't a good option available at QB that year. I'm pretty sure that was the year people were upset that we traded our first round pick to Jacksonville instead of drafting Blaine Gabbert. We got Kerrigan instead.

They knew Grossman could run the offense. Beck was still relatively unknown and they gave him his shot. Obviously neither one of them lit it up, but it didn't cost us anything and we weren't saddled with some crazy QB trade or a complete waste of a first round pick like Gabbert.

Just my opinion, but as bad as those two were, I give Shanahan credit for those moves that he DIDN'T make at QB that year. It certainly wasn't like we were going to win the super bowl that year if only we'd had Mark Sanchez or whoever.

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby SkinsJock » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:44 pm

riggofan wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:The point was when the Skins were doing good last year, Griffin got all of the credit. Nothing was said about how genius of an OC Kyle was, or how great Shanahan groomed his offense to fit Griffin.

I heard a lot of talk about the Shanahan's great work last year. I don't agree with you at all on this.


Yeah I agree with DeadSkins. Kyle in particular got a lot of credit for being so innovative with how RGIII was used last year. At least when he was winning. When we lost games, he of course was hammered for putting RGIII's health at risk.
I don't know if Kyle was really innovative or not last year, but that was certainly the word out there.

That's why I have to raise an eyebrow when people are immediately calling for the OC to be fired. Not saying they're wrong, but I don't think fans are especially objective about those comments, especially after a loss.

I also agree with Deadskins and riggofan - I think that Kyle and Mike got a lot of credit for installing an offense that Griffin was comfortable running …
they decided that (based on what the NFL officials said would happen this season AND the injury to RG3) the Redskins offense would need to be 'different' this season

I have never been a fan of Mike and Kyle - that's just me - both are good at what they do - I just want someone better at both positions - that's MOST likely not happening for a while

the issues we're having are due to many things - they are certainly NOT solely due to having Mike, Kyle, Jim or Ken as our main coaches and coordinators

this franchise is not in as bad a shape as many think
and
we have our franchise QB
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open

Robert has to make a huge effort to show he's got what it takes to be a future great QB - we need the real RG3 not the hyped version

Hail to the Redskins

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Re: Shanahasn't and never will

Postby hanburgerheel » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:51 pm

RayNAustin wrote:
hanburgerheel wrote:
RayNAustin wrote:I've not been bashful in my opinion on the ShanaClan. In my view their legacy is a series of poor decisions that have undone the things they have done well. I had seen enough after year two, and it was based on remarkably poor judgement that were self inflicted wounds.

Right out of the gate, the decision to force a change to the 34 defense without the proper personnel to run that scheme caused a diversion of resources away from where they were needed ... offense. Instead of focusing on oline to give your newly aquired QB a chance to be successful, the defensive front 7 had to be reworked. McNabb ended up scrambling for his life before being benched in favor of Grossman?

Then there was the Grossman-Beck shuffle that was a comedy of errors, with the apparently forgotten "I'll stake my reputation on Beck" from Mike's own mouth. Beck wasn't an error ... he was a JOKE. A bad joke, who was then benched for the benched RG3-int.

So, the wisdom was, three bad choices at QB, necessitating a "sell the farm" trade for RG3, only to do exactly what they should not have done ... use the new Fararri as a demolition derby mobile. Result? Fararri in the shop needing major repairs, just as predicted by many. Oh how people forget stuff like using him as a receiver and him getting nailed by a safety ... Kyle the genius ... and Mike afterward sheepishly confessing "we won't be doing that again". (It was idiotic to do it in the first place), though that didn't stop them from running the tires bald, resulting in RG3 laying in a twisted heap on the ground. The decision to keep him in the Seattle game when he was clearly injured, and limping badly should have been the last decision this father-son team was allowed to screw up. Everybody knows how furious I was ....

Now we see a team that is perfoming worse than when this knucklehead took over, in spite of his repeated claims of how much more talent this team now has, compared to the one he inherited. If that's true, then it is only an even greater indictment of coaching failure ... achieving poorer results with better talent.

The results we see now supports the view that last year's success was due to a scheme that could not be sustained ... using this kid as a plow mule, masking the ineptitude of the offense in the previous two years. The necessitated switch to a more conventional style offense is now producing exactly the same lack of production that this team suffered in years 1 & 2. What's worse is the setback in RG3's development which can clearly be seen in his uncharacteristic play ... poor decisions ... inaccurate passing ... unable to establish any consistency or rythym ... looking worse than our 4th round backup, saddled with the added pressure of such high expectations based on last year's achievements.

Anyone really looking at this situation realistically should conclude that neither the Redskins or RG3 can afford another year of this type of malfeasance. It should be evident by how poorly this team is performing in ALL areas that nobody on this staff seems to have any answers .... offense, defense, special teams ... what is actually working? Alfred Morris ...they haven't found a way to screw that up yet ... but be patient ... we still have six games to run the wheels off him too.



Realistic and very astute! Thank you!

It is a train wreck. If ShananSon ruin Griffin- which they almost have? They may as well open a restaurant chain together, because no NFL owner would touch them. I hope that Snyder and Allen see how bad Mike & Son are. My fear is that they have convinced themselves he will right the ship. It's so clear that it is a failed experiment. I realize it's hard as a fan to admit, but you're a lot better off if you do.


Right now, and I doubt the wisdom of this coach to make the proper decision, is to sit RG3 for the remainder of the year to avoid the only possible outcome worse than what is already guaranteed. With a leaky oline, and a young QB struggling, having him in there and reinjuring that knee would be devastating. Give him the rest of the season and off season to fully heal ... no return until he can safely do so without a brace is the only wise choice at this stage. He's forcing and pressing, and for what? Ego? Wiser cooler heads must prevail.

Give Cousins the work ... see what you have in him, and allow him the opportunity to either solidify his place on the team, or build trade value. Assure Robert that this is in his and the Redskins best long term interests ... that to keep him in under the current circumstances is too much risk for no good reason. The season is lost ... there are no miracle comebacks in the cards this time around, and to risk reinjury is beyond foolish.

He's not going to like it. He'll just have to live with it. It's the only smart choice they have, which is probably why they won't choose to do it.



It's true that this season is over... in mid-November. They will NEVER put Cousins in unless Robert is on crutches. I agree with your suggestion, however.

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