I'm no longer feeling optimistic

Talk about the Washington Redskins here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
Skins History Buff
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:36 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby welch » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:41 pm

And that's the reverse of the Gibbs years. John Madden and Pat Summerall used to marvel at the Redskins' records in December.

CKRGiii
Posts: 6755
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: 505 New Mexico repn

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:03 am

I get the frustration, but would be hard pressed not to mention some of the cap magic Allen has worked. We used to over pay for over the hill players who got fat checks to come roll over in DC... That, and how do you blane the GM for 2 qbs getting legs broke? Like, what team could overcome that??

Its buttfumbles time to shine, i guess? Optimistic thread... Uhg I hope its warm enough to fish on Sundays
#21 forever in our hearts
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 9041
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Location: Montclair, Virginia

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby riggofan » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:34 am

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I get the frustration, but would be hard pressed not to mention some of the cap magic Allen has worked. We used to over pay for over the hill players who got fat checks to come roll over in DC... That, and how do you blane the GM for 2 qbs getting legs broke? Like, what team could overcome that??


Yeah I completely agree that Allen has been (vastly) better than Cerrato in managing the team better in that way. We've had cap sanity, more patience and a focus on building through the draft. And clearly as much as people want to point fingers, nobody is to blame for the QBs being injured like this. The day Colt took over as starter though, I did warn some people on here not to get too excited because the guy has never been able to stay healthy for an extended period of time in his entire career.

I'm totally willing to give him and even Snyder credit for those things, but its largely meaningless because the QB situation has been so badly mishandled. Year and after year. Its like giving your kid credit for checking the air pressure in his tires and keeping them properly inflated while he drives for five years without ever getting an oil change. :D
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You can't do epic **** with basic people." - DJax
"We're on the rise, man, whether you're on the train or not." - Josh Norman

08 Champ
Posts: 18267
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: New England - Red Sox & Patriots - how great is that

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:48 pm

OK - let's say that it's not really anyone's fault that we've had 2 horrendous season with injuries to so many key players
AND
let's keep everyone and do the best we can through this - after all these guys have done some good things ... haven't they?

we could get lucky - even the blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then ....

give me a break - I want to see somebody fired - make somebody pay for the mistakes
let's get some people in here that know what they're doing - anyone can do a better job than these idiots have done
Hoping that Dan Snyder will make sweeping changes is probably not realistic - shame that ...
we're looking at a couple of years to get better here - time to rebuild ... big time

Hog
User avatar
Posts: 2153
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2004 9:42 pm

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby fredp45 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:33 pm

I don't believe the Redskins made the wrong decision with quarterbacks...

Kirk was not the guy to lead us. I believe it's become pretty clear as we watch him on the Vikings that he is no way worth $28 mil per year -- guaranteed. He makes the same mistakes with them as he did with us. I could argue we shouldn't have put the tag on him for the 2 years prior.

While Smith wasn't killing it, we were 6-3 when he went down. It's so easy now to say, we shouldn't have made that trade, but that's Monday am quarterback and easy to say.

08 Champ
Posts: 18267
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: New England - Red Sox & Patriots - how great is that

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby SkinsJock » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:42 pm

Cousins is only making that money because of what the Redskins did - nobody thinks he's a really good QB - the Vikings made a bad choice
Hoping that Dan Snyder will make sweeping changes is probably not realistic - shame that ...
we're looking at a couple of years to get better here - time to rebuild ... big time

CKRGiii
Posts: 6755
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: 505 New Mexico repn

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:38 am

SkinsJock wrote:OK - let's say that it's not really anyone's fault that we've had 2 horrendous season with injuries to so many key players
AND
let's keep everyone and do the best we can through this - after all these guys have done some good things ... haven't they?

we could get lucky - even the blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then ....

give me a break - I want to see somebody fired - make somebody pay for the mistakes
let's get some people in here that know what they're doing - anyone can do a better job than these idiots have done



Knee jerk reactions is nornal from the fans perspective- especially when the *sh$t* hits the fan...

But as a front office we've not only seen, but have written the book on how disastrous that is. New coach new gm.. New scheme- been there done that. Look at the carousel in Clevland for your answers- team has had the most top 10 picks in the last 10 drafts out of every team! I'd argue they are one of the youngest teams with the most talent out there- the new coach after new coach has kept them at the bottom of the league.

I'm not saying we are NE and in the best shape ever- but we are improving in our player management and acquisitions. Stay the course is hard when you have so much adversity- BUT who and what will flip it on a dime?


You can ask for changes, but it's meaningless without any solutions- ya?
#21 forever in our hearts
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

08 Champ
Posts: 18267
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: New England - Red Sox & Patriots - how great is that

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby SkinsJock » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:52 am

OK ckRGiii - I hear what you're saying - I don't advocate for changing the way we do things because of the past few years - HOWEVER someone in the FO has to pay the price for what has happened here - Bruce Allen has done a good job with the cap AND we have added some good young players BUT we're still seeing the same under 500 win loss record and have a really botched up situation at arguably the most important position for any franchise

we have it ingrained in our psyche that we're almost there .... this goes on and on, season after season ... now "it's just a couple of years, we'll be fine .."

we don't need to 'change for the sake of change' OR need someone to be fired just for the mistakes of the past few years
we need to change the way we do things because what we have been doing has resulted in a mediocre franchise on and off the field



this franchise is a mess right now - 1-3 over the next 4 would be a disaster - we're not optimistic anymore, we're hoping to get lucky
Hoping that Dan Snyder will make sweeping changes is probably not realistic - shame that ...
we're looking at a couple of years to get better here - time to rebuild ... big time

CKRGiii
Posts: 6755
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: 505 New Mexico repn

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:12 pm

Be realistic though... SF had a great shot at taking the division; until they lost Jimmy G for the year.

Alex Smith isn't Breezy, but he was the best out there at a reasonable price. Letting Kurt Grossman go was a great move, and Alex Smith the perfect stop gap- for the options we had. Maybe a trade for Bridgewater would've sufficed ? but his injury was coming back from was gruesome.

The front office fielded a contender... Alex isn't a gun slinfger and didnt quite play up to expectations- injuries (CT, Crowder,PRich, Guice, Reed in the off-season, OLINE) aside, he had us at the top of the division.


You can't just start cutting heads off, when the group that was fielded (depth including) was doing what it needed to.

If any heads should roll, it should be focused om the strength and conditioning team and/or the field maintenance team.
Losing all the players we have the last 2 years (most in the NFL) makes it impossible to judge the FO or the HC.

Now, with less injuries on the D, I AM disappointed in Mununsky- we were a rop flight D at the start and now exposed, he has no answer for our slow ilbs. Hasn't adjusted or coached better techniques to address the issues and now the D is floundering.. Granted, an anemic O doesn't help the D at all...

Im just not about firing people for the sake of "blame." Case can be made to blame the refs, or the "curse", just as strong as one to fire anybody.

Furthermore, fire someone- O.K. Now who fills those shoes and brings this "change" we need? Serious question, who can make us better that doesn't wear a uniform on game day?
#21 forever in our hearts
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

08 Champ
Posts: 18267
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: New England - Red Sox & Patriots - how great is that

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby SkinsJock » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:37 pm

you're right - nobody can make this franchise better in the next few years - we're in a huge hole ...

BUT, what you're suggesting is to not make any changes to the FO and coaching staff (the same coaching staff that got us to 6-3) and keep doing what we've been doing ... like adding really good young players and just hope that things will get better in a few years
THEN, we'll see the same results
AND, we'll still be saying we just need to wait and give these guys more time

the people in charge are not being honest about what is happening here



it's like hoping that we'll get a new owner - IT's NOT HAPPENING
Hoping that Dan Snyder will make sweeping changes is probably not realistic - shame that ...
we're looking at a couple of years to get better here - time to rebuild ... big time

08 Champ
Posts: 18267
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: New England - Red Sox & Patriots - how great is that

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby SkinsJock » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:16 pm

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Knee jerk reactions is nornal from the fans perspective- especially when the *sh$t* hits the fan...

But as a front office we've not only seen, but have written the book on how disastrous that is. New coach new gm.. New scheme- been there done that. Look at the carousel in Clevland for your answers- team has had the most top 10 picks in the last 10 drafts out of every team! I'd argue they are one of the youngest teams with the most talent out there- the new coach after new coach has kept them at the bottom of the league.

I'm not saying we are NE and in the best shape ever- but we are improving in our player management and acquisitions. Stay the course is hard when you have so much adversity- BUT who and what will flip it on a dime?
You can ask for changes, but it's meaningless without any solutions- ya?

The BIGGEST reason the Browns have turned things around is NOT due to the number of big time picks as much as the fact that those picks and the coaching staff have been put together by guys that know what they're doing

we can do that - we need to do things differently - the new NFL is about analytics and the new offenses - we are NOT that franchise - not even close
Hoping that Dan Snyder will make sweeping changes is probably not realistic - shame that ...
we're looking at a couple of years to get better here - time to rebuild ... big time

Skins History Buff
Posts: 5922
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:36 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby welch » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:12 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... 48ad372c23

'Nobody should be comfortable at Redskins Park’: After another loss, a week of outrage ensues

By Dan Steinberg December 9 at 7:00 AM

[Yes...Steinberg posted the story this morning. Right. Before the game.]

The Redskins also lost Colt McCoy, likely for the season, and now face easily the most dire weekend of the year: another divisional game, this time with a quarterback who has been around for less than a month and with a shattered offensive line, a pessimistic fan base and a growing chorus of voices calling for significant, franchise-altering changes.

Such changes didn’t happen after last year’s late-season swoon. The injuries offered a valid excuse, and the Kirk Cousins for Alex Smith swap was thus the only major offseason upheaval. There’s no great way to judge where fans are on these issues or whether a continued slide down the standings this month would prompt universal demands for a change in course. But the people who talk to the fans seem to have had enough, anyhow. A few examples from the past week of outrage.

Kevin Sheehan, the longtime (former) host of the team’s pregame radio show, lit into the club’s leadership on his podcast this week, using as a peg the news that last Monday’s loss in Philadelphia earned just a 21.6 television rating, which just a few years ago would have been an unfathomably low number for a prime-time division game with first place on the line.

“The television ratings are just another in the list of things that make me believe that Dan Snyder is going to make big changes, barring a late season run,” Sheehan said. “If they don’t make the postseason, they have to get rid of Bruce [Allen] and Jay [Gruden]. They have to. The fan base is eroding at a faster clip than in recent years. The Indianapolis home opener crowd is a reflection of that. The ratings on television locally the other night is a reflection of that. They’ve got to be gone.

“Nobody wants Bruce back. Can we all agree on that?” Sheehan asked. “I haven’t met one person who wants him back.”

Sheehan then referenced Allen’s quote last spring, that “Wins and losses is the most important statistic when it comes to an equipment manager, a team president, a quarterback, a running back, a guard or a coach.” The Redskins are 58-81-1 in the nine seasons since Allen took control.

“Well, his record isn’t good enough,” Sheehan said. “And that’s on the field. Off the field, from a subjective standpoint, nonquantifiable: Arrogance. Limited, intelligence-wise, in terms of the way the organization is operated. Sleazy, low-rent too much of the time. They need a change because it’s warranted first and foremost based on record. But they need a change because it’s the only chance they have to keep the [fan base] from eroding at the clip that it has been diminishing at.”



Danny Rouhier, on 106.7 the Fan, was of a similar mind.

“The Redskins have been kind of dead man walking, and we haven’t really fully realized it,” he said this week. “All I know is nobody should be comfortable at Redskins Park today. Nobody should be. That’s from Bruce Allen on down, and if you could fire Dan Snyder, I’d fire him, too. Nobody with an office, nobody with a locker should be comfortable today. This season is over. And the infighting and the arguing about who should take snaps for the last four games, to me, is irrelevant. There’s no relevance to it. . . .


Full story lays it all out: fire Bruce Allen, Jay Gruden, and Dan Snyder if we could. Shred the team. Reset the culture.

08 Champ
Posts: 18267
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: New England - Red Sox & Patriots - how great is that

Re: I'm no longer feeling optimistic

Postby SkinsJock » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:55 pm

+1 - what a huge waste of time and talent the past 10 seasons have been - we've gone nowhere - this situation is hopeless
Hoping that Dan Snyder will make sweeping changes is probably not realistic - shame that ...
we're looking at a couple of years to get better here - time to rebuild ... big time

CKRGiii
Posts: 6755
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:56 pm
Location: 505 New Mexico repn

Re: I'm feeling optimistic

Postby cowboykillerzRGiii » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:41 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Knee jerk reactions is nornal from the fans perspective- especially when the *sh$t* hits the fan...

But as a front office we've not only seen, but have written the book on how disastrous that is. New coach new gm.. New scheme- been there done that. Look at the carousel in Clevland for your answers- team has had the most top 10 picks in the last 10 drafts out of every team! I'd argue they are one of the youngest teams with the most talent out there- the new coach after new coach has kept them at the bottom of the league.

I'm not saying we are NE and in the best shape ever- but we are improving in our player management and acquisitions. Stay the course is hard when you have so much adversity- BUT who and what will flip it on a dime?
You can ask for changes, but it's meaningless without any solutions- ya?

The BIGGEST reason the Browns have turned things around is NOT due to the number of big time picks as much as the fact that those picks and the coaching staff have been put together by guys that know what they're doing

we can do that - we need to do things differently - the new NFL is about analytics and the new offenses - we are NOT that franchise - not even close



Oh ya? What did they turn around??? All the top picks you could dream for- still fired the HC mid season.. And still bot a winner.

I rest my case
#21 forever in our hearts
“I wanted to just… put his lights out ….because, you know, …Dallas sucks…” - Dexter Manley

08 Champ
Posts: 18267
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:23 pm
Location: New England - Red Sox & Patriots - how great is that

Re: I'm no longer feeling optimistic

Postby SkinsJock » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:10 am

I hope Allen is fired and doesn't resign - Snyder probably keeps him on so the media and the fans can blame him for the mess we're in
Hoping that Dan Snyder will make sweeping changes is probably not realistic - shame that ...
we're looking at a couple of years to get better here - time to rebuild ... big time

Return to Hog Wash - Washington Redskins Football