Question About QB Position...

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Question About QB Position...

Postby Clinton Portis » Sun Feb 06, 2005 1:29 am

Is it true, do you have to have a really strong arm to throw a deep ball, or is it all about Technique and how you throw it?

I was just wondering, because sometimes people say "so and so has no arm" and then they throw a 60 yard bomb to someone in a game.

So is it Technique, or Arm Strength?

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Postby welch » Sun Feb 06, 2005 5:52 pm

It's also size of your hand. Grip.

For power and distance, I think that technique counts more than pure-muscle arm strength, or, rather, that what we see as arm strength is long arm, large hands, and looseness, or snap, at each of the joints involved in throwing. The arm is used like a whip -- shoulder, elbow, wrist, and fingers -- each joint adding acceleration to the ball.

My hunch is that the best QB's are guys who can see and "think" and throw a bit quicker than the game that's being played around them. They can see a defense and sense that a receiver is about to come open without going through a "top of the brain" reasoning process. A shortcut from their eyes through their brain to their arm, saying, "that receiver now".

They have a shortcut throwing motion so they release the ball quicker, rather than having to wind up.

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For an example, in the early '60s the Redskins had a big QB named Norm Snead, who could throw rockets. One season, the Skins had no offense except Snead throwing 60 or 70 or 90 yards in the air to Bobby Mitchell.

A couple of years later, they traded Snead to the Eagles for Sonny Jurgenson, who could not throw quite as far (almost, though), but who got rid of the ball quicker and more accurately.

In his late '30s, people began to notice that Sonny no longer had the "arm strength" that he had had. He quit throwing the ball 70 yards downfield. It didn't matter. Teams were shifting to the "modern" zone defense, and Sonny could spot the seams and hit a receiver before the defenders could seal up their coverage. It was almost as if they evolved the defenses right into Sonny's strengths, and he never lost his sight, sense, and quick release.

(For the "late model Sonny", look at the recent biography of Vince Lombardi, who, by the way, said something like, "If we had had Sonny with the Packers, we would never have lost a game". Both Lombardi and Jurgenson attended the SB after 1969, Lombardi's season with the Redskins. I think it was SB 4, Vikings and their terrifying "purple people-eaters" defense against Kansas City. Early in the game, both Lombardi and Jurgenson were looking hard at the defense. Lombardi turned to Sonny, who was sitting a few seats away...nodded towad the defense, and Sonny grinned, and signalled, "I see it, too. We'll own that defense".)

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Postby Irn-Bru » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:12 pm

Welch, are you referring to When Pride Still Mattered?
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Postby welch » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:28 pm

I thank that's it...I'll have to check Amazon for books on Lombardi and see which one leaps out at me as THE book. But yes, I think it had "pride" in the title, and the Lombardi/Jurgenson/Super Bowl story.

The "we would never have lost" is something that sticks in my head, but I can't remember a source. Maybe the same book?

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Postby curveball » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:03 am

Just to put it in historical perspective, teams switched in a more zone dominant scheme in the late 60's early 70's because of Bob Hayes.

The difference on arm strength between the strongest and weakest arms in the NFL on a deep ball would be 15 yards or so at most. Where it does make a difference is on the "out" and when a QB is under pressure and can't step up.

Arm strength on an "out" matters because matters because a fraction of a second is the diffeence between a 17 yard completion and a CB knocking the ball away.

You can really see arm strength on display under the rush though. As an example, Favre can get the ball to a RB in the flat off his back foot quicker, allowing the player to catch the ball and possibly even make a move while a weak-armed QB like Brunell (just using him for example, not trying to start a flame war) would likely get the RB stopped in his tracks. The fraction a second difference it takes the ball to arrive can mean the difference between no gain and who knows how many yards if te RB braks the initial tackle.
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Postby SKINZ_DOMIN8 » Tue May 10, 2005 9:30 pm

No. Arm strength is severely OVER-RATED. Chad Pennington is a prime example. He places the ball where it needs to be. Joe Montana was the same. Troy Aikman had a decent arm but his accuracy was superb.
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Postby WshSkins22 » Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:27 pm

NO, it has nothing to do with it. Im 16, and Im a skinny guy( I still play fball for my highschool), but the point it, My arms arent huge, but I can throw way farter than my qb, I can throw a football about 55-60 yards and im only like 16, it is ALL about technique and practice believe me, I used to suck at throwing. Get out there and throw a football for 15-20 minutes each day, work on techinique make sure you use your whole body step into it, and you will be able to throw far
" But you should've seen Joe (Gibbs) when they said he couldn't coach anymore...his chest puffed out and said..i dont care what it takes, were not leaving here without another ring." Coach Joe Bugel

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Postby Redskin in Canada » Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:36 pm

John Elway and Dan Fouts had great technique, accuracy, and strength.

Physical talent -plus- technique are better than one -minus- the other. My 2 cents
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Postby hatsOFF2gibbs » Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:13 am

WshSkins22 wrote:NO, it has nothing to do with it. Im 16, and Im a skinny guy( I still play fball for my highschool), but the point it, My arms arent huge, but I can throw way farter than my qb, I can throw a football about 55-60 yards and im only like 16, it is ALL about technique and practice believe me, I used to suck at throwing. Get out there and throw a football for 15-20 minutes each day, work on techinique make sure you use your whole body step into it, and you will be able to throw far

:lol:

Are you serious? You can throw 55-60 yards? That's pretty impressive...wouldn't be surprised if the Skins called you up. They need a backup for MBrunell....he can only throw about 20. :)
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Postby Redskin in Canada » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:07 am

hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:
WshSkins22 wrote:NO, it has nothing to do with it. Im 16, and Im a skinny guy( I still play fball for my highschool), but the point it, My arms arent huge, but I can throw way farter than my qb, I can throw a football about 55-60 yards and im only like 16, it is ALL about technique and practice believe me, I used to suck at throwing. Get out there and throw a football for 15-20 minutes each day, work on techinique make sure you use your whole body step into it, and you will be able to throw far

:lol:

Are you serious?

If he is, he can probably stink the entire field, probably part of the stadium too. What do you have for dinner?
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Postby WshSkins22 » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:05 pm

hahahaha, nice my bad, but yeah I have no idea why I can throw a football far, Ig only I had height man im about 5'9
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Postby Redskins4Life » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:41 pm

WshSkins22 wrote:NO, it has nothing to do with it. Im 16, and Im a skinny guy( I still play fball for my highschool), but the point it, My arms arent huge, but I can throw way farter than my qb, I can throw a football about 55-60 yards and im only like 16, it is ALL about technique and practice believe me, I used to suck at throwing. Get out there and throw a football for 15-20 minutes each day, work on techinique make sure you use your whole body step into it, and you will be able to throw far


I think youre underestimating how much 60 yards really is guy

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Postby Clinton Portis » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:30 pm

You can stand at the Goal Line and throw to the Opponents 40? Wow. Wow.

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Postby WshSkins22 » Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:32 am

I not underestimating anything, I say on a normal day I can chuk and nfl ball aobut 50 yards, if im on a really good day it ca go 60. You think im kidding but im really not
" But you should've seen Joe (Gibbs) when they said he couldn't coach anymore...his chest puffed out and said..i dont care what it takes, were not leaving here without another ring." Coach Joe Bugel

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Postby WshSkins22 » Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:33 am

^^ its also not accurately 60 yards I cant hit a targer 60 yards away. If I threw 10 passes my average would be around 50, but its once in a blue moon I can throw it 60
" But you should've seen Joe (Gibbs) when they said he couldn't coach anymore...his chest puffed out and said..i dont care what it takes, were not leaving here without another ring." Coach Joe Bugel

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